Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. wherever I am needed
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    22 Mar '18 00:301 edit
    25 years since the MacDonalds children killing
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    22 Mar '18 02:041 edit
    Originally posted by @st-dominics-preview
    25 years since the MacDonalds children killing
    There never seem to be official remembrances or memorials for the almost 1,000 civilians killed by loyalist paramilitaries or British security forces. http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html#statusperpetrator

    Why do you think that is?

    EDIT: I guess the official count is 897:

    Loyalist paramilitaries also repeatedly selected targets simply on the basis of their perceived religion, killing almost 720 Catholic civilians.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Of almost 200 civilians killed by the security forces, all but 23 were Catholic.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/topics/troubles_violence

    By contrast, the IRA killed far more security and loyalist forces than civilians and far less civilians than loyalists and security forces combined. Yet, the propaganda machine must keep alive the Warringtons while ignoring the crimes of the occupiers and their minions.
  3. Joined
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    22 Mar '18 12:47
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    There never seem to be official remembrances or memorials for the almost 1,000 civilians killed by loyalist paramilitaries or British security forces. http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html#statusperpetrator

    Why do you think that is?

    EDIT: I guess the official count is 897:

    Loyalist paramilitaries also re ...[text shortened]... ne must keep alive the Warringtons while ignoring the crimes of the occupiers and their minions.
    Remembrance isn't exclusive. Just because I remember the destruction of Coventry doesn't mean I can't remember the Dresden firebombings just because the victims were on opposing sides.

    The IRA killed more people than any loyalist force. They singlehandedly have destroyed the economy of Northern Ireland so that it is the poorest place in all of the islands of Great Britain or Ireland (although ROI GDP figures are grossly inflated by American money that passes through Ireland for a brief moment due to its low tax rate).

    Unionist opinion has not changed. Glorifying the IRA or apologizing for them won't change it. These days, transfer of territory happens through something called a referendum, like in Scotland. There was a demand for an independence referendum, so one was held. There was a demand for a referendum on the EU, so one was held. No status quo or institution is sacrosanct or above the scrutiny of the public. That's how we do things in Britain and if you think we'll roll over against the wishes over by far the majority of the people in Northern Ireland because of the actions of a few terrorists you would be mistaken. We've dealt with far worse threats to peace.

    If there is ever a United Ireland, it will because public opinion in Northern Ireland shifted in favour of union with the ROI. Never because of the IRA. If you truly want a united Ireland, ditch the IRA. Nationalists reopen old wounds and harden opinion against them whenever they bring it up.