Originally posted by voltaire Yeah and Reagan is usually considered to be the last true conservative, and my point is that even that isnt true.
A "real conservative" would be someone who made proposals to seriously cut the size of government.
Consider that the Federal budget is predominately devoted to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, and Interest on the Debt. So any "truly conservative" candidate would have to propose serious cuts to all of these programs. Now imagine what would happen to any candidate who offered even minor cuts to any of these programs.
As for Reagan, he did put forth the radical notion that conservatives are capable of smiling.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra Conservatism is fear of change, sticking to old values, emphasis on the family and old moral values, etc.
Fear of change, eh? So who is advocating change today? Is it the statist liberal or the conservative? For example, with the advent of Medicare/Medicaid no one is advocating deviating from the federally mandated entitlements, rather, they are for simply "reforming" these failed policies. It is the conservative who is advocating for change by having the states decide this matter, albeit, with a small voice. Of course, it is the modern day liberal who is either amused by this sentiment or terrified by it. In fact, the statist is the one fearful of any powers being taken away or deferred away from the federal governmnent.
As for changing family values, I'm all for it!! Lets begin by teaching children in public schools the concept of "right" and "wrong" and actually begin to instill a moral fiber of some kind. However, once again the modern liberal shrinks back in terror at such a notion fearing that religion has taken over the public sector.
Originally posted by whodey Fear of change, eh? So who is advocating change today? Is it the statist liberal or the conservative? For example, with the advent of Medicare/Medicaid no one is advocating deviating from the federally mandated entitlements, rather, they are for simply "reforming" these failed policies. It is the conservative who is advocating for change by having the sta ...[text shortened]... s back in terror at such a notion fearing that religion has taken over the public sector.
The main responsibility for instilling moral fiber are the parents themselves. They are the role models -- their children will pick up a lot from them. But I agree that schools have to do their part to back up what the parents are trying to achieve - and especially where the parents aren't getting it done.
If the public school in your town was to propose such a morality program - what things would you want it to emphasize?
Originally posted by Melanerpes The main responsibility for instilling moral fiber are the parents themselves. They are the role models -- their children will pick up a lot from them. But I agree that schools have to do their part to back up what the parents are trying to achieve - and especially where the parents aren't getting it done.
If the public school in your town was to propose such a morality program - what things would you want it to emphasize?
First of all, where do the parents get their moral fiber from? Were they not kids once? Secondly, where to children spend the majority of their week? Is it not at school? Of course, the modern day public school system is a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be that children only learned these things from the parents. In that regard it is a new societal experiment altogether. Now its the state that is helping to raise our children.
Originally posted by Melanerpes A "real conservative" would be someone who made proposals to seriously cut the size of government.
Consider that the Federal budget is predominately devoted to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, and Interest on the Debt. So any "truly conservative" candidate would have to propose serious cuts to all of these programs. Now imagine what would ...[text shortened]... s for Reagan, he did put forth the radical notion that conservatives are capable of smiling.
Reagan was adamantly opposed to Social Security and Medicare. See his speech in 1961 that I made a thread about.
You are correct that it would be political suicide for someone in either party to suggesting cutting or abolishing either program. In my opinion the same would be true for "Obamacare." It's a lot easier to oppose a non-existent program, because it's easy to fear monger about what "will" happen. But once it gets instated, IMO it will become just like Medicare. Ten years from now even Republicans wouldn't dare suggest abolishing it.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper Reagan was adamantly opposed to Social Security and Medicare. See his speech in 1961 that I made a thread about.
You are correct that it would be political suicide for someone in either party to suggesting cutting or abolishing either program. In my opinion the same would be true for "Obamacare." It's a lot easier to oppose a non-existent progr ...[text shortened]... t like Medicare. Ten years from now even Republicans wouldn't dare suggest abolishing it.
Your argument is probably why conservatives are so vehemently opposed to any kind of healthcare reform -- they know that once it gets enacted, there's no turning back. And the argument has been made that since we already can't afford the future costs of Social Security and Medicare, how are we going to pay for Obamacare as well?
Originally posted by whodey First of all, where do the parents get their moral fiber from? Were they not kids once? Secondly, where to children spend the majority of their week? Is it not at school? Of course, the modern day public school system is a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be that children only learned these things from the parents. In that regard it is a new societal experiment altogether. Now its the state that is helping to raise our children.
Where do people get their moral fiber from? I think whole volumes have been written on this topic.
I believe that much moral fiber comes from observing role models -- and even in today's world, this is primarily one's parents - but it also includes other people one respects and spends a lot of time with (other family members, neighbors, teachers, classmates etc). And the actions of these people are a lot more important than anything they may directly teach.
One problem is that most kids don't have enough strong relationships with responsible adults -- they spend much of their time hanging out with their peers, and their morality ends up being based on what the other kids think is "cool" -- and this often means stuff like sex, drugs, and getting bad grades.
Originally posted by Melanerpes Where do people get their moral fiber from? I think whole volumes have been written on this topic.
I believe that much moral fiber comes from observing role models -- and even in today's world, this is primarily one's parents - but it also includes other people one respects and spends a lot of time with (other family members, neighbors, teachers, clas ...[text shortened]... kids think is "cool" -- and this often means stuff like sex, drugs, and getting bad grades.
Well I can pretty much tell you where we derive our morals. It comes from those to whom we look up to. This includes parents, peers, the state, and even religious leaders etc. So who influences us the most? It is those that we spend the most time and/or those we look up to the most.
Originally posted by Melanerpes Your argument is probably why conservatives are so vehemently opposed to any kind of healthcare reform -- they know that once it gets enacted, there's no turning back. And the argument has been made that since we already can't afford the future costs of Social Security and Medicare, how are we going to pay for Obamacare as well?
I would say that to remove medicare/medicaid would have the same effect those in the former USSR had when their government collapsed. After learning that communism had fallen, people asked the question, "But since the state is no longer in control of the market, from where will be buy bread?"
In short, people become accustomed to a certain lifestyle and once it become altered or threatened a personal crisis insues as a result.
Reagan is like the prototypical conservative of modern American politics.
The battle lines were Communism versus Capitalism.
Movement towards Freedom from the government versus Opression by the government.
No to drugs versus legalize.
Cut non-defense spending to defeat the communists and avoid jacking up taxes.
That was generally what I consider Reaganism and what I consider the base of modern conservatism, although not all Conservatives of Republicans agree with it, it was the new, modern conservative Republican coalation.
Incidentally, having not read the initial link and planning on posting any changes or influeces it has on me on a seperate post, I must throw in that Reagan-Conservatism will need to adapt to modern realities of a growing percentage of minorities as the baby boom generation ages and the more globalized and racially tolerant generation makes up a larger majority of voters as they come of age.
Read the article, and its a fairly weak attack on Reagan's credentials when one considers the facts and history behind the stats cited.
Reagan did increase millitary spending to fight Communism, consistent with Conservatism.
Further, the Democrats were in charge of Congress, which explains many of the bills that were passed. With Reagan at the helm though, notice what chances nationalized healtchare had back then. It was a balance of power, and Reagan was a strong source of that conservative balance.
"Fairly weak attack"? Do you mean to say that criticizing Reagan is so easy they should have dug up more dirt on him?
Ronald Reagan is the main reason why the US dropped out of the top 10 of per income earners in the world. But I'm sure as time progresses and people become less embarrassed of voting for him, more and more people will realize he was a senile idiot.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra "Fairly weak attack"? Do you mean to say that criticizing Reagan is so easy they should have dug up more dirt on him?
Ronald Reagan is the main reason why the US dropped out of the top 10 of per income earners in the world. But I'm sure as time progresses and people become less embarrassed of voting for him, more and more people will realize he was a senile idiot.
Why the strong disdain for Reagan? Surely there are facts behind your emotions?
Was Reagan really a conservative?
25 Aug '09 18:16
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