I leave the land of the living for three weeks and insanity strikes at the heart of my homelands. Pretty typical.
I heard about the London bombings just before I left on holiday and knew then that Britain's response would be completely irrational.
But this just really gets on my tits and surprises me. Have a look at the reaction page on the BBC website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4711189.stm
Nearly 50% of the people actually agree with the shoot-to-kill policy conducted by the police.
Ironically enough, Britain has a long history of terrorism and shooting to kill. Equally ironic is the fact that those were all due to imperialistic ventures of a nature as well.
Here's a wee article from the Socialist Worker paper on the UK's shoot-to-kill policies from Xmas's past:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=7013
The main argument will revolve around one simple question:
Is the safety of the majority a strong enough argument to suffer a few minor blunders?
The equally simple answer is: "It depends if you are involved in one of the blunders or not."
And this is where it gets tricky. Not the blunder of shooting an innocent civilian in itself (I mean, they've already bombed thousands of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, one more or less, even on home-soil, won't make much difference to their consciences), but the what the killing of a civilian will do to the national state of mind.
Just look at the frenzy the media are whipping up. Just look at the reaction page from the BBC (top link) and just look at the levels of aggression go up.
Fear.
I've said it umpteen times on this site, generally referring to the gun culture in the US, that fear leads to irrational behaviour. When you have the police scared, the public frightened and all sides becoming ever more aggrevated with each other, you are creating a VERY unsafe and extremely irrational environment to live in.
It won't be long before civilians are mistaking each other for terrorists! Don't say it won't happen. Remember the kiddy-porn frenzy a few years ago? Whole groups of vigilanties were out tracking down sex-offenders.
At one point a children's doctor was dragged from his house and beaten up because he had a sign on his door saying: "Pediatrician".
It won't be long before people are checking under their toilet bowls to see if there's a terrorist hiding there. Don't think it won't happen. During the McCarthy period in the US people were showing dillusional signs of paranoia, seeing "evil commies" everywhere they looked.
Does anyone really think this is a solution?
The only real solution is an end to imperialism. This means dimantelling the world bank and the IMF as we know it today. It also means NOT supporting crack-pot regimes like Saddam, Pinochet, Blair, Putin, Bush and that nut in Australia!
If you want to make the world a safer place it would be wise to stop thinking along nationalistic lines, but along the lines of solidarity and equality. Not just for the West, but for everyone.
If you don't, the world you know will crumble and fall. You'll be scared. You'll be insecure and you really won't enjoy yourself.
xxx
Originally posted by shavixmirPhew. For a minute there I thought the solution would be difficult.
[b]The only real solution is an end to imperialism. This means dimantelling the world bank and the IMF as we know it today.[b]
I honestly don't think treating everyone equitably is going to take the wind out of the sails of the religious nutters. Do you?
I agree, but the solution is not as simple as it seems.
I, myself, didn't understand it at first, and the only way I understood it was through a scientific experiment I did as a child that I remembered a while back.
You take a wild animal, from birth, domesticate it, then free it in the world as an adult, it simply won't survive, it will A) look to find you again, or B) get scared, sit around, and starve to death.
Conservatives and religious nutters, are very much like that wild animal. Since birth, they have been brought up with very flawed values, money and me first, obediance towards those in high positions (like a boss at work), and a huge security blanket.
They can't think outside the box, they can't think about others, and in fact, most of their lives, they have never really thought for themselves. They stick to what they have known their whole life, they know nothing else since childhood.
Like that wild animal, that is suddenly free into adulthood, it's scared, it doesn't know what to do the minute it's pattern is broken, it doesn't know how to think, how to survive, so it either sticks/tries to find it's hiarchy god again (in the case of the animal, it was ME, in the case of Republicans, it's Bush, Jesus or God), or gets scared and does absolutely nothing to carry on with any sense of an ordinary life.
To make a long story short, it's complicated, values and upbrining are much of the problem, this takes generations to fix, and won't get fixed overnight, the solution IS simple, but people are NOT.
Originally posted by DeadBeSwallowedSo this answer is based upon one "scientific" experiment you did as a child? Every spring for 35 years we've taken in and raised orphaned wild animals and released them as adults in the fall. They do just fine. Of course, we're not doing it "scientifically".
I agree, but the solution is not as simple as it seems.
I, myself, didn't understand it at first, and the only way I understood it was through a scientific experiment I did as a child that I remembered a while back.
You take a wild animal, from birth, domesticate it, then free it in the world as an adult, it simply won't survive, it will A) ...[text shortened]... generations to fix, and won't get fixed overnight, the solution IS simple, but people are NOT.
I've said it umpteen times on this site, generally referring to the gun culture in the US, that fear leads to irrational behaviour. When you have the police scared, the public frightened and all sides becoming ever more aggrevated with each other, you are creating a VERY unsafe and extremely irrational environment to live in. Shav ...
Exactly. This is the aim of the terrorist.
Originally posted by shavixmirThe root of the evil is really money, isn't it? Otherwise nobody would bother playing the Great Game. Good luck dismantling that one.
The only real solution is an end to imperialism. This means dismantling the world bank and the IMF as we know it today.
xxx
R. Buckminster Fuller. "You must choose between making money and making sense.
The two are mutually exclusive."
I shall now put on a Communards record and wear my socialist hat.
Is the monetary system inescapable? I know people who are involved in a system called Beans which operates with non-monetary credits: e.g. I might do some proof-reading for someone who doesn't have anything I want; I get credit & can use it to get something I want (someone to repair my car). It seems to work, although I haven't been involved with it long. Here's their web site:
http://www.sane.org.za
More of the same: http://www.humantruth.org/moneco.htm
It's no use waiting for everyone to form a circle and hold hands--let's get on with it ourselves...
Originally posted by ivangrice
I honestly don't think treating everyone equitably is going to take the wind out of the sails of the religious nutters. Do you?
Your sentence seems to imply that the correct course of action would be to continue treating people inequitably.
I suppose everybody wants to know what to do about religious fanaticism and suicide bombing--domestically, first, and then internationally. What's your stance?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageNon-monetary credits?
The root of the evil is really money, isn't it? Otherwise nobody would bother playing the Great Game. Good luck dismantling that one.
R. Buckminster Fuller. "You must choose between making money and making sense.
The two are mutually exclusive."
I shall now put on a Communards record and wear my socialist hat.
Is the monetary system in ...[text shortened]... iting for everyone to form a circle and hold hands--let's get on with it ourselves...
Surely money (since we stopped using gold) is just a credit system anyway - you get paid credits for doing your job, or selling something, which you can then spend on something you don't have.
Originally posted by VargOne word: usury! đ
Non-monetary credits?
Surely money (since we stopped using gold) is just a credit system anyway - you get paid credits for doing your job, or selling something, which you can then spend on something you don't have.
Edit: I like SANE's ideas because they are an attempt to reintroduce ethics into economics. Usury is the classic case of money usurping ethics. I believe it's called the bottom line.
Originally posted by shavixmirSorry dude.
I leave the land of the living for three weeks and insanity strikes at the heart of my homelands. Pretty typical.
I heard about the London bombings just before I left on holiday and knew then that Britain's response would be completely ...[text shortened]... You'll be insecure and you really won't enjoy yourself.
xxx
You are making a valid point. I have lived under a shoot-to-kill regime.
But you lose all moral authority once you start quoting from the Socialist Worker.
Socialist Worker - contradiction in terms.
Originally posted by KneverKnightAnd corrupt politicians and media
[b]I've said it umpteen times on this site, generally referring to the gun culture in the US, that fear leads to irrational behaviour. When you have the police scared, the public frightened and all sides becoming ever more aggrevated with each other, you are creating a VERY unsafe and extremely irrational environment to live in. Shav ...
Exactly. This is the aim of the terrorist. [/b]