Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Aug '18 17:13
    From the BBC:

    At least 29 children have been killed and 30 wounded in a Saudi-led coalition air strike in Yemen, the International Committee of the Red Cross says.
    The children were travelling on a bus that was hit at a market in Dahyan, in the northern province of Saada.
    The health ministry run by the rebel Houthi movement said put the death toll at 43, and said 61 people were wounded.
    The coalition, which is backing Yemen's government in a war with the Houthis, said its actions were "legitimate".


    It obviously boila down to the trolley problem, but if you’re bombing, should you bomb areas where school busses are running?

    It’s alright to say: collatoral damage, but really, can you seriously suggest all the women and children murdered in Hiroshima were legitimate casualties?

    I have to go... blast. I’ll finish this later.
  2. Subscribergumbie
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    09 Aug '18 17:28
    I doubt they bombed a school bus intentionally.

    The population of Hiroshima was intentionally targeted, so I don't see how these two bombings are related.
  3. Zugzwang
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    09 Aug '18 20:081 edit
    Originally posted by @gumbie
    I doubt they bombed a school bus intentionally.

    The population of Hiroshima was intentionally targeted, so I don't see how these two bombings are related.
    On 11 September 2001, a hijacked airliner crashed into the Pentagon (an undeniable military target).
    But the US media still self-righteously condemned it as a terrorist atrocity against innocent civilians.
  4. Joined
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    09 Aug '18 20:53
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    On 11 September 2001, a hijacked airliner crashed into the Pentagon (an undeniable military target).
    But the US media still self-righteously condemned it as a terrorist atrocity against innocent civilians.
    now explain the twin towers
  5. Zugzwang
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    09 Aug '18 20:58
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    now explain the twin towers
    The World Trade Center was an economic target (a symbol of American wealth), not a military target.
    The USA has a long record, however, of bombing economic targets and smugly writing
    off all civilian casualties as 'collateral damage'.

    By the way, if the hijackers had aimed to maximize civilian casualties, then could they not
    have done so by crashing by airliner into a densely crowded football stadium?
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Aug '18 21:06
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    On 11 September 2001, a hijacked airliner crashed into the Pentagon (an undeniable military target).
    But the US media still self-righteously condemned it as a terrorist atrocity against innocent civilians.
    The people on the plane were civilians which still makes it a war crime and a "terrorist atrocity".
  7. Zugzwang
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    09 Aug '18 21:102 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The people on the plane were civilians which still makes it a war crime and a "terrorist atrocity".
    No1Marauder prefers to ignore the US media condemning the attack on the Pentagon in its
    TOTALITY as a terrorist atrocity, including killing US military personnel on active duty.

    If the jingoistic American No1Marauder (who apparently likes to downplay or excuse some
    US war crimes when expedient) wants to fantasize that the nationalistic US media always
    must be 'fair and balanced' and factually accurate about condemning 'terrorism', then
    he will share a cherished delusion with most other Americans.

    I was sympathetic toward the innocent victims of 11 September 2001. (One of my relatives
    was in New York City, working very near the World Trade Center, and he almost became
    one of the victims. A policeman told him to run for his life just before the towers fell.)
    Yet I prefer to keep the deaths of about 3000 people on 11 September 2001 in historical context.
  8. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    09 Aug '18 21:141 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    On 11 September 2001, a hijacked airliner crashed into the Pentagon (an undeniable military target).
    But the US media still self-righteously condemned it as a terrorist atrocity against innocent civilians.
    You are an absolute idiot Duchess64! That's about the most offensive remark I've ever seen posted in RHP.

    More than 200 innocent human beings dead... and you are justifying it.

    You are a fukking azzhole!! 😠
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Aug '18 21:16
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    The World Trade Center was an economic target (a symbol of American wealth), not a military target.
    The USA has a long record, however, of bombing economic targets and smugly writing
    off all civilian casualties as 'collateral damage'.

    By the way, if the hijackers had aimed to maximize civilian casualties, then could they not
    have done so by crashing by airliner into a densely crowded football stadium?
    While they could have attacked a bit later in the day to maximize casualties, the WTC on any given workday had more people in it than any football stadium:

    More than 50,000 people worked in the buildings, with another 200,000 visiting each day before its destruction in a terrorist attack in 2001.

    https://www.livescience.com/22994-world-trade-center.html

    Furthermore, the WTC was not geographically isolated from the rest of the city like stadiums are; it was smack in the middle of downtown Manhattan. When I visited Ground Zero, I was stunned to see how close it was to many other buildings. In retrospect, the death toll could and perhaps should have been much worse.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Aug '18 21:18
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    No1Marauder prefers to ignore the US media condemning the attack on the Pentagon in its
    TOTALITY as a terrorist atrocity, including killing US military personnel on active duty.

    If the jingoistic American No1Marauder (who apparently likes to downplay or excuse some
    US war crimes when expedient) wants to fantasize that the nationalistic US media alway ...[text shortened]... out condemning 'terrorism', then
    he will share a cherished delusion with most other Americans.
    Your childish personal attacks never cease.

    The fact is your implication that the attack on the Pentagon was not a terrorist attack is dead wrong. You should admit this rather than stooping to your usual baseless lies in response.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Aug '18 21:22
    One would also have to establish that AQ was waging a legitimate war of self-defense against the United States before claiming that any action they did was not simply a criminal act rather than one to be judged under the rules of war.
  12. Zugzwang
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    09 Aug '18 21:27
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    You are an absolute idiot Duchess64! That's about the most offensive remark I've ever seen posted in RHP.

    More than 200 innocent human beings dead... and you are justifying it.

    You are a fukking azzhole!! 😠
    The jingoistic troll Wolfe63 shows his abysmal 'reading comprehension', putting more words into my mouth.
    Where did I allegedly write a 'justification'?

    What I wrote is factually accurate. Does Wolfe63 deny that the Pentagon, the supreme
    headquarters of the US military, is a military target? Does Wolfe63 deny that the US media
    condemned the attack on the Pentagon in its totality as a terrorist atrocity?

    For the record, many diverse people (particularly in societies long oppressed by the USA)
    cheered the attacks (which I did not) of 11 September 2001 or at least regard the hijackers
    as brave men who were willing to die for their cause.

    In the autumn of 2001, Tariq Ali asked a New York City taxi driver (a Latino immigrant from
    central America) about what he felt about the attack on World Trade Center. The taxi driver
    said that he felt that the hijackers had obtained a measure of retaliation for the sufferings
    that his homeland had experienced (tens or hundreds of thousands of killings) at the
    hands of the USA and the brutal right-wing dictatorship that it supported. If so, then
    I wonder how many Americans who rode in his taxi (which displayed a large US flag)
    would never suspect the real beliefs of this Latino immigrant who loathed US Imperialism.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    09 Aug '18 21:27
    Originally posted by @gumbie
    I doubt they bombed a school bus intentionally.

    The population of Hiroshima was intentionally targeted, so I don't see how these two bombings are related.
    They are related and given context in the OP.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    09 Aug '18 21:30
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    The World Trade Center was an economic target (a symbol of American wealth), not a military target.
    The USA has a long record, however, of bombing economic targets and smugly writing
    off all civilian casualties as 'collateral damage'.

    By the way, if the hijackers had aimed to maximize civilian casualties, then could they not
    have done so by crashing by airliner into a densely crowded football stadium?
    So you are saying that the towers were the main target? Interesting. Where's Freaky when you need him?
  15. Zugzwang
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    09 Aug '18 21:30
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Your childish personal attacks never cease.

    The fact is your implication that the attack on the Pentagon was not a terrorist attack is dead wrong. You should admit this rather than stooping to your usual baseless lies in response.
    The jingoistic American No1Marauder has a record of attempting to downplay or excuse
    American evident crimes such as the My Lai Massacre and shooting down an Iranian airliner.

    As usual, the lying troll No1Marauder stuffs more 'strawmen' into my mouth.
    I never wrote that the attack on the Pentagon could not be considered, at least in part,
    an act of terrorism.

    My point was to criticize the US media's common hypocrisy in condemning terrorism.
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