01 Aug 04
EVIL: The opposite or absence of good. One form of evil, physical evil, is a result of the state of journeying toward its ultimate perfection in which God created the world, involving the existence of the less perfect alongside the more perfect, the constructive and the destructive forces of nature, the appearance and disappearance of certain beings (310). Moral evil, however, results from the free choice to sin which angels and men have; it is permitted by God, who knows how to derive good from it, in order to respect the freedom of his creatures (311). The entire revelation of God's goodness in Christ is a response to the existence of evil (309, 385, 1707). The devil is called the Evil One. See Devil/Demon.
http://www.catholic.org/phpframedirect/out.php?url=http://www.nccbuscc.com/catechism/text/index.htm
01 Aug 04
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeHi Ivanhoe
EVIL: The opposite or absence of good. One form of evil, physical evil, is a result of the state of journeying toward its ultimate perfection in which God created the world, involving the existence of the less perfect alongside the more p ...[text shortened]... t/out.php?url=http://www.nccbuscc.com/catechism/text/index.htm
Do you see the definition of good and evil purely in religious terms or would you define good/evil in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god.
For instance - Is all sin, as defined by god, evil? If so, then working on the sabbath would be evil. But in terms of ethics I don't think anyone would attempt to argue that Sunday working is an evil deed.
On the other hand if all sin is not evil then has god laid down which of the sins are evil and which are sins of a lesser degree?
Regards,
SB
01 Aug 04
2 edits
Originally posted by ShallowBlueShallowblue: " Do you see the definition of good and evil purely in religious terms or would you define good/evil in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god."
Hi Ivanhoe
Do you see the definition of good and evil purely in religious terms or would you define good/evil in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god.
For instance - Is all sin, as defined by god, evil? If so, then ...[text shortened]... sins are evil and which are sins of a lesser degree?
Regards,
SB
In a fundamental way all Christian decisions concerning ethics are based on God's will. However the decision whether cars will ride on the left or the right side of the road is of course on a different level. The decision however to regulate traffic can certainly be a moral choice based on Christian ethics.
Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christians is meant for worshipping God. Everything you do or do not do on that day should be seen in that perspective. Doing labour isn't an evil deed, of course not. However not worshipping God is indeed a sin. If you decide to work on Sunday, work that could be done on another day, you are putting God aside. Putting God aside is the sin, not the working in itself. For instance farmers who have to milk their cows on Sunday are not sinning. People whose job it is to look after other people (doctors, nurses, etc) can do so on Sundays without sinning.
Shallowblue: "On the other hand if all sin is not evil then has god laid down which of the sins are evil and which are sins of a lesser degree?
There is indeed a hyrarchy in sins. The most severe sins are mortal sins.
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christians is meant for worshipping God. Everything you do or do not do on that day should be seen in that perspective. Doing labour isn't an evil deed, of course not. However not worshipping God is indeed a sin. If you decide to work on Sunday, work that could be done on another day, you are putting God aside. Putting God aside is the sin, not the working in itself. For instance farmers who have to milk their cows on Sunday are not sinning. People whose job it is to look after other people (doctors, nurses, etc) can do so on Sundays without sinning.
Well, you've pointed out why my phrase of 'working on the sabbath' is not a good example.
But my question was - do you define good and evil purely in terms of what is a sin in god's eyes and what is not? You say not worshipping god on the sabbath is a sin - Do you mean to say that it is also evil?
There is indeed a hyrarchy in sins. The most severe sins are mortal sins.
That's interesting. Your term heirarchy suggests several degrees. How many levels of sin are there?
You say there is 'mortal' sin, is this type absolutely evil?
Is the least of the sins still 'evil' or is it regarded only as a minor transgression?
I hope you don't mind my questions but as the thread is about good and evil I'm trying to find out how christians define these terms.
😀
01 Aug 04
1 edit
Originally posted by ShallowBlueHow many levels of sin are there?
[b]
Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christians is meant for worshipping God. Everything you do or do not do on that day should be seen in that perspective. Doing labour isn't an evil deed, of course not. However not worshipping God is ...[text shortened]... 'm trying to find out how christians define these terms.
😀
You should ask a judge that question. He knows there are levels of sin, because the penalties differ.
Shallowblue: "You say there is 'mortal' sin, is this type absolutely evil?
Yes.
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeHmm Ivanhoe It seems to me that you evade answering the question: “Could good/evil be defined in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god” - thus can we discuss Good/evil without subscribing to the same faith ?
Shallowblue: " Do you see the definition of good and evil purely in religious terms or would you define good/evil in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god."
In a fundamental way all Christian decisions concerning ethics are based on God's will. However the decision whether cars will ride on the left or the right side of the road is ...[text shortened]... f a lesser degree?
There is indeed a hyrarchy in sins. The most severe sins are mortal sins.
- Note that I’ve taken the liberty to rewrite a bit.
Allow me to answer:
Good and evil does not only exist in terms of a specific religion, I do not need the tales of old books to know that right and wrong exist and differs, I do not need the promise of eternal damnation to choose right from wrong.
Interesting I think that yours (biblically inspired) and my definition of evil are the same on the majority of issues. What does that mean ? Have I as a human found the same definition as God simply because Gods laws are basically the essence of human desire for the good. Or have I as a human been guided by God because I’m good ??
Apart from the above - that I find to be one of the most interesting questions in any discussion of religion and ethics - you mention the mortal sins. Sins that are worse than any else. I could certainly mention evils that I consider worse than others, what is your (not the church ) definition ?
Is it : "Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam", i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law.
Some also includes Sins that violate the human or the natural law - for what is contrary to the human or natural law is also contrary to the Divine law. Does that then mean that what is against the laws of humans are a mortal sin ? Should it then be looked upon as any other mortal sin ?
01 Aug 04
Was Evel Knievel evil? Was it a sin for him to misuse
his God-given talent for entertaining? He could have
been a circus clown, but instead chose to repeatedly
put himself in harm's way, all for show, while all the
while possibly putting ideas in the heads of small
children to also put themselves in harm's way. Was
he a poor steward of God's gifts to him, and if so,
Does that make Evel evil?
Dr. Cribs
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ScheelThanks scheel for expanding on what I'm trying to get at. I too detect more than a hint of evasion by Ivanhoe.
Hmm Ivanhoe It seems to me that you evade answering the question: “Could good/evil be defined in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god” - thus can we discuss Good/evil without subscribing to the same faith ?
- Note that I’ve taken the liberty to rewrite a bit.
Allow me to answer:
Good and evil does not only exist in terms of a specifi ...[text shortened]... st the laws of humans are a mortal sin ? Should it then be looked upon as any other mortal sin ?
Ivanhoe - As the instigator of the thread I feel you ought to attempt a straight answer. 🙂
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ScheelScheel: "I do not need the tales of old books to know that right and wrong exist and differs, I do not need the promise of eternal damnation to choose right from wrong."
Hmm Ivanhoe It seems to me that you evade answering the question: “Could good/evil be defined in terms of ethics as judged by humans alone and not by god” - thus can we discuss Good/evil without subscribing to the same faith ?
- Note that I’ve taken the liberty to rewrite a bit.
Allow me to answer:
Good and evil does not only exist in terms of a specifi ...[text shortened]... st the laws of humans are a mortal sin ? Should it then be looked upon as any other mortal sin ?
You mention in your post the natural moral law, which is written in the hearts of every human being. That's the answer of course. However the interpretation of the natural moral law is a difficult task. I don't think it is possible to interprete the natural moral law without the perspective of the Holy Spirit, lets translate that into the secular term "Love". It's not the same, but ...
Scheel: "Have I as a human found the same definition as God simply because Gods laws are basically the essence of human desire for the good. Or have I as a human been guided by God because I’m good ??"
You've mentioned the Natural Moral Law. Doesn't that answer your questions ?
Scheel: "Does that then mean that what is against the laws of humans are a mortal sin ? Should it then be looked upon as any other mortal sin ?[/b]
Can you elaborate on that please ?
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ShallowBlueShallowblue: " ... a straight answer. 🙂[/b]
Thanks scheel for expanding on what I'm trying to get at. I too detect more than a hint of evasion by Ivanhoe.
Ivanhoe - As the instigator of the thread I feel you ought to attempt a straight answer. 🙂
The straight answer is that the Natural Moral Law is written in the hearts of every human being.
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeThats a great answer... but to a question of which I have no memory of asking! 😲
Shallowblue: " ... a straight answer. 🙂
The straight answer is that the Natural Moral Law is written in the hearts of every human being.[/b]
Just to repeat one more time - Do you as a christian define good and evil purely in religious terms? Or, to put it another way - If something is a sin in the eyes of god is it therefore evil???
01 Aug 04
Originally posted by ShallowBlue
Thats a great answer... but to a question of which I have no memory of asking! 😲
Just to repeat one more time - Do you as a christian define good and evil purely in religious terms? Or, to put it another way - If something is a sin in the eyes of god is it therefore evil???
I have the impression you want to lead me to some question or to some conclusion. If you read my posts you could read my stance in this regard.
Anyway, I'll answer "Yes" to your question.