Originally posted by KazetNagorra Actually, Switzerland has opted into many key EU treaties, including the Schengen area (open borders) and freedom of movement of labour. So while citizenship may not be easily obtained (that holds for just about every EU country, by the way), other EU citizens can freely move to Switzerland and work there.
So I guess this means they will be going down the tubes as well.
I vote for measures that include how easy it is to get an education, freedom to choose your occupation, social safety nets and tax laws that ensure access to basic needs like health care, food and shelter while promoting free enterprise. I'm guessing countries with a healthy, growing middle class have less internal social strife. They also probably have less billionaires who can buy their governments.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra It depends on what you are looking for precisely and what you would value in particular. But, broadly speaking, Northern European countries tend to rank best followed by honorable mentions for countries like Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Japan and a few others. If you would particularly value, say, women's emancipation and rights, then Northern Europe ...[text shortened]... e Deep South is perhaps closer to some better-performing former Soviet bloc nations like Poland.
Actually, one of the great virtues of the United States today is its variety of cultures,lifestyles and economic opportunity. To a greater or lesser extent, most European nations tend to be more monolithic, with fewer choices.
Originally posted by normbenign Actually, one of the great virtues of the United States today is its variety of cultures,lifestyles and economic opportunity. To a greater or lesser extent, most European nations tend to be more monolithic, with fewer choices.
That is the great virtue every American believes but unfortunately it is untrue.
Social mobility is even worse in US than in UK and far worse than the rest of Europe.
Originally posted by wolfgang59 That is the great virtue every American believes but unfortunately it is untrue.
Social mobility is even worse in US than in UK and far worse than the rest of Europe.
Originally posted by wolfgang59 I see someone gave this a thumbs down without reply.
is that because they dislike the truth or don't believe it but have no reply?
The fact is, for American citizens, the US is [b]not the land of opportunity.
Born rich - stay rich.
Born poor - stay poor.[/b]
BS
My grandfather landed in New York with the shirt on his back after having escaped to Britain during the war with the Nazis on his tail.
He worked his butt off to give my father a better opportunity, but my father's childhood would clearly be described as lower middle class.
My father worked his butt off to give me a better opportunity. My childhood could be be described as middle middle class.
I work my butt off to get my children a better opportunity. My children's childhoods could best be described as something like middle/upper-ish middle class.
"Born poor - stay poor" is hogwash; a soothing canard for people who couldn't advance due to bad luck or poor effort.
My grandfather landed in New York with the shirt on his back after having escaped to Britain during the war with the Nazis on his tail.
He worked his butt off to give my father a better opportunity, but my father's childhood would clearly be described as lower middle class.
My father worked his butt off to give me a better opportunity. My childhood ...[text shortened]... r" is hogwash; a soothing canard for people who couldn't advance due to bad luck or poor effort.
We've heard this one from you before, and I agree, it is there if you want it, regardless of the stats you can create opportunities, seize on opportunities and take advantage of opportunities in the US.
And it happens to this day, there are success stories, I have a few anecdotes of workmates from the Philippines living comfortably in the US now. From a very humble start (a village with no power or water) It did take hard work, it is possible.
Originally posted by Wajoma We've heard this one from you before, and I agree, it is there if you want it, regardless of the stats you can create opportunities, seize on opportunities and take advantage of opportunities in the US.
Indeed. There just happen to be more and easier opportunities to develop one's talents in certain other places. This is obviously what wolfgang59 is alluding to.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra Indeed. There just happen to be more and easier opportunities to develop one's talents in certain other places. This is obviously what wolfgang59 is alluding to.
Please refer to wolfgangs supposed 'fact'.
wolfgang:
"The fact is, for American citizens, the US is not the land of opportunity.
Born rich - stay rich.
Born poor - stay poor."
Such a hurry to try to get a shot in, oops, blew a hole in his foot.
My grandfather landed in New York with the shirt on his back after having escaped to Britain during the war with the Nazis on his tail.
He worked his butt off to give my father a better opportunity, but my father's childhood would clearly be described as lower middle class.
My father worked his butt off to give me a better opportunity. My childhood ...[text shortened]... r" is hogwash; a soothing canard for people who couldn't advance due to bad luck or poor effort.
I am not disputing that the US was the land of opportunity.
Originally posted by Wajoma We've heard this one from you before, and I agree, it is there if you want it, regardless of the stats you can create opportunities, seize on opportunities and take advantage of opportunities in the US.
And it happens to this day, there are success stories, I have a few anecdotes of workmates from the Philippines living comfortably in the US now. From a very humble start (a village with no power or water) It did take hard work, it is possible.
Of course someone from a poor country can migrate to a rich country and do well.
I am talking about social movement by citizens.
It just doesn't happen to the extent we are told.
Originally posted by sh76 KN's point that there are European countries with better social mobility is no doubt accurate, but you overstated your case there a little.
I don't think I overstated my case.
I admitted to being surprised that US social mobility was worse than UK.
Europe is better but not perfect.
It would be interesting to see stats from the 50s and 60s when I believe US
would top the list. It is a shame that so many Americans are living in the past.
US is now more class-ridden than most Western countries.
23 Jun '15 13:55
What is the greatest nation on earth?
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