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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    22 Jul '12 07:12
    Is this where the wheels of the Romneytrain fall off? Can he really dodge the corporate raider, anti American worker criticism, and claim that even though he was CEO he somehow was not responsible for the wrecking ball/downsize modus operandi that Bain and the like are all about?

    If his much touted economic management credentials are nothing more than to takeover,raid and outsource American jobs, to pay for the massive bonuses that he and the other masters of the universe like him enjoy, at what point should his type of experience, be demonized rather than praised, when you consider how that 'maximize profits at all costs' mindset, undermines the very fabric of the broader American society that he so fervently and patriotically claims to defend?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jul '12 07:20
    Originally posted by kmax87
    What, no threads on BAIN?
    There is a thread on BAIN.
  3. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    22 Jul '12 08:09
    Originally posted by FMF
    There is a thread on BAIN.
    Care to contribute to this one? While you do I'll look to find the other one.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jul '12 08:28
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Care to contribute to this one? While you do I'll look to find the other one.
    I was talking about this one. And I think I've helped you enough already.
  5. Subscriber WoodPush
    Pusher of wood
    22 Jul '12 14:41
    +1 Romney for showing he understands how to manage resources. Closing failing divisions is important to get the country out of its mess.

    -2 Romney for lack of integrity.

    +1 Media/Obama for exposing what could have been a good story for Romney but exposing instead that he has a major character flaw.

    If Romney is actually telling the truth that he released all responsibility in managing a $60 billion dollar company that he is the sole owner of, then I give him:
    -10 for being a complete and utter idiot.
    (But I don't believe for a second that that's really the case).
  6. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    22 Jul '12 16:31 / 1 edit
    if i have this right:

    after 1998, Romney can't be held responsible for anything that Bain did, no matter how despicable . . .

    regardless . . .of the fact (if this is correct, and i think it is from all that i've seen) . . .

    1. he was the president, CEO, sole proprietor, signed SEC documents, and was paid a six-figure salary until at least 2002

    2. his "legal" residency requirement to run as governor of Massachusettes, even though he was a resident of Michigan, was that he was president and a board member of Bain and that required him to be in massachusettes constantly for board meetings and other business activities (after 1998, when he ran for governor and served as governor of massachusettes

    if these are both true, then he's a liar and guilty of some crime for submitting falsified official documents and worse - completely taking the voters of massachusettes and the whole USA for granted as totally stupid (can't argue too much with him there)

    if these are both true, then let's remember too that he's taking credit for the return of the auto industry in the US when he officially said that he would not have bailed the industry out . . . so

    he takes credit where he did nothing and would have taken the exact opposite action than what led to the success . . .and . . as with Bain . . ..

    rejects all responsibility for actions that he did officially take

    how is he anything but a blantant deleted word - deleted word (in edits)?

    i don't get it . . .

    i am not political here . .

    i am just trying to understand


    if i have any of this wrong . . .please clarify . .

    but i haven't written anything above here that can't be proven true with published reports from credible media sources . . .

    so . . . . . . gee . . . . . is there a debate or are we just wasting electrons with this thread?
  7. 22 Jul '12 17:15
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Is this where the wheels of the Romneytrain fall off? Can he really dodge the corporate raider, anti American worker criticism, and claim that even though he was CEO he somehow was not responsible for the wrecking ball/downsize modus operandi that Bain and the like are all about?

    If his much touted economic management credentials are nothing more than to ...[text shortened]... abric of the broader American society that he so fervently and patriotically claims to defend?
    The taxes thread is about Bain. I initially believed that the Reason Romney isn't sharing his tax records is because it would reveal a Bain salary during the years he was supposedly not working with them even though the SEC records say he was. But there is also speculation that he may not have paid any taxes at all in 2009 and doesn't want the public to know that.

    Either way, I don't know if Bain will hurt him, but at this point he can't use it as a feather in his cap as he'd originally intended.
  8. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    22 Jul '12 18:08
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    The taxes thread is about Bain. I initially believed that the Reason Romney isn't sharing his tax records is because it would reveal a Bain salary during the years he was supposedly not working with them even though the SEC records say he was. But there is also speculation that he may not have paid any taxes at all in 2009 and doesn't want the public to kno ...[text shortened]... him, but at this point he can't use it as a feather in his cap as he'd originally intended.
    i don't think it matters at all that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009

    that's such non issue . . .mainly because lots of very very super wealthy people took huge loses and no income at all in 2009

    that is no reason at all for not releasing tax forms . . but . . . .taking income from Bain when he said that he had nothing to do with the company . . .well . . i bet that raises some more questions that he doesn't want to answer . . . .

    his real problem in my opinion is that in not providing answers with secrets (that he is entitled to keep as a private citizen) raises more questions that allow all of us to speculate about

    i don't think any of this is going to go away
  9. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    22 Jul '12 19:02
    Originally posted by coquette
    i don't think it matters at all that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009
    You don't think it matters that Romney is, by any standard, likely one of the richest individuals in the country, paying a net tax rate a fraction of that of middle class Americans (whether that be 13 percent or 0 percent), and yet all the while he's making the argument that the tax burden on the "job-creating" wealthiest Americans (himself included) is too high?

    I admittedly think there are more important reasons not to vote for Romney, but I still think this one is not a non-issue.
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    22 Jul '12 19:05
    Originally posted by coquette
    i don't think it matters at all that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009

    that's such non issue . . .mainly because lots of very very super wealthy people took huge loses and no income at all in 2009

    that is no reason at all for not releasing tax forms . . but . . . .taking income from Bain when he said that he had nothing to do with the company . . .well ...[text shortened]... ns that allow all of us to speculate about

    i don't think any of this is going to go away
    It will CERTAINLY matter politically if he paid no taxes in 09, you can bet his political opponents would jump on that like a dog on a bone.

    There is another problem with Romney having nothing to do with impropriety:

    Even given some kind of experience running companies he has a major flaw:

    TOTAL inexperience in foreign policy. He hasn't a clue about what to do with the rest of the world. Therefore, if he gets elected, he will certainly be a puppet to his masters, his controllers.
  11. 22 Jul '12 19:50
    Originally posted by coquette
    i don't think it matters at all that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009

    that's such non issue . . .mainly because lots of very very super wealthy people took huge loses and no income at all in 2009

    that is no reason at all for not releasing tax forms . . but . . . .taking income from Bain when he said that he had nothing to do with the company . . .well ...[text shortened]... ns that allow all of us to speculate about

    i don't think any of this is going to go away
    I actually agree personally. But I don't think it'll play well with a lot of people earning 30 or 40 thousand who did have to pay taxes. Those other wealthy people aren't running for President.
  12. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    22 Jul '12 21:47
    oh . . sorry . . . i would HATE it that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009 if that is so but. . i just meant that . . . . it wouldn't be a huge issue in my opinion . . . .of course i can be totally wrong . . . as you point out . . . i'm only saying that there are worse potential issues for him

    for instance, i don't think his keeping his tax records secret is about taxes . . . i think it's about "religious" contributions (tax breaks for contributions)

    anybody that lived where i lived the last few years (before the campaign ever started) will remember that the mormon church was running constant TV ads about Mormons are regular people just like everyone else . .. .well . . it's totaly obvioius that those were pre-campaign ads for Romney to be president

    the goofy part of this is that he could have taken those as tax breaks . . .they weren't illegal for the tax deductions, not even as tax breaks as gifts to the mormon church . . .BUT

    how is it going to look to tax payers when they see that he spent millions (tens of millions?) on political advertising and called them religious contributions on his tax records? Won't that look like lies?

    That seems worse than he got tax breaks for major investment losses that meant that he ended up not paying taxes one year . . . that's all i was saying really
  13. 23 Jul '12 05:13
    Originally posted by coquette
    oh . . sorry . . . i would HATE it that he didn't pay any taxes in 2009 if that is so but. . i just meant that . . . . it wouldn't be a huge issue in my opinion . . . .of course i can be totally wrong . . . as you point out . . . i'm only saying that there are worse potential issues for him

    for instance, i don't think his keeping his tax records secret ...[text shortened]... meant that he ended up not paying taxes one year . . . that's all i was saying really
    No, I agree that keeping them a secret may be worse than revealing them. But then, I don't know what's in them. One basic maxim of politics is that what is legal is not necessarily moral.

    But you're right, he does have worse issues. He has to run against his own landmark healthcare plan, and take credit for it at the same time. That's going to take some doing.
  14. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    26 Jul '12 20:39
    It just keeps getting worse for Romney every day.

    He hates Obama care (which is really Romney care)

    He promises full disclosure on all the Olympics records

    except that they were all destroyed or buried somewhere and aren't disclosed to the public

    He isn't a W do-over, except that he's now so cozy with the good old W gang. gee, sure can't wait to get back to the good old warm up to 2008-2009!

    Next? The Vice President choice! Let's go all in and have Sarah Palin back! That should do it for him.