Originally posted by no1marauder
By back in your "Debating mode", do you mean we can expect to be called "Nazis", "scum" , "traitors" and various colors of "trash"? And what exactly did you mean when you called me "brown trash"? Why "brown"?
In Idlecuriousityship,
2BitLawyer - Lying, Hypocritical, Brown Trash
The SA gangs that roamed the streets in Germany during the thirties, ridiculing, degrading, provoking people and looking for trouble wore brown shirts.
I hope this explanation I gave you will not trigger any "funny" actions by you or your friends not here on RHP and not on Cribs's "Forum Wars" site.
Originally posted by usmc7257
to answer your question (and i certainly cant speak for ivanhoe) i think that you guys have backed him into a corner like an animal. if pushed far enough an animal would lash out furiously to protect himself from what they felt would be a dangerous situation. i am not defending anyone on the site. this is just my observation.
First of all, I wasn't part of the first Ivanhoe outbreak; I hadn't even turned on my computer about 12 hours before and about 18 hours after. It had been totally contained (i.e., moderated) by that time, so I've had some trouble reconstructing what happened.
However, what is clear is that Ivanhoe believes that 'we' are out to get him. This is not true. Certainly some people in the Cribs forum are no more fans of Ivanhoe as he is of 'us,' but the idea that 'we' are making some concerted effort to drive him crazy does not bear out in reality.
For my part, I've been more openly antagonistic towards no1marauder than Ivanhoe (something the latter will agree on), and most of that on Cribs' forum.
What it seems to me is Ivanhoe is incensed that Bbarr, Rwingett, RoyalChicken and Cribs don't agree with many of his 'Culture of Life' opinions. They may poke fun at things he feels are serious moral issues. They may argue vehemently against Ivanhoe's views.
Perhaps he takes this personally, but that's on him, not them. When he challenges their views, tries to poke holes in their arguments, they don't 'lash' out at him. If Ivanhoe doesn't like the way they debate or the opinions they hold, then he shouldn't post his opinions on a forum where such opinions are opened to scrutiny.
As for poking fun, there are many insults and much sarcasm on this site (and the web). If he thinks that this stuff should be moderable, he should petition Russ and Chris. The 'WolfPack' doesn't give out any more sarcasm or insults than any other loosely defined clique on this site.
And, again, you should be chastising anyone who posts insults, not just 'us.'
Originally posted by usmc7257
it seems like he cant get a word in edgewise without someone twisting what he says all around. so he lashes out of instinct. i am not saying some of these "lashes" are appropriate.
None of these lashes are appropriate. None. Neither 'side' should be lashing. However, you will notice the severity of the lashes from 'side' to 'side' are disproportionate.
Haven't you noticed his 'partial' quotes are twisting the intended meaning? Why don't you chastise Ivanhoe? Because he's sensitive and 'we' are not? That's unfair, and you know it.
'We' have backed him in a corner? What corner? You said yourself 'this is not real life.' When I read something insulting or incindiary (and there are many things), do I lash out with epithets? Does Bbarr? What about 'corners' we are backed into?
As for goading: Do you not feel that Ivanhoe is goading us with his quoting? Are you saying that because he's backed into this metaphorical 'corner' that 'we' can't respond? Are 'we' to let him push 'us' into that 'corner' and sit there? Either goading is ok, or it's not. If it is ok, then let it go. If it is not, then chastise Ivanhoe along with the rest of 'us.' You may not be defending his actions, but you are chastising just 'us,' and that's unfair.
I don't buy this 'side' business -- this 'they' and 'us' business -- anyway. When I disagree with #1, I say it. When I disagree with Ivanhoe, I say it. That's what the debates forum is for: agreement, disagreement and argument. Not epithets. Not insults. Ivanhoe was guilty of the same 'Wolfpack' tendencies he accused Bbarr and RoyalChicken of (I'm still not sure if I am a member).
Nemesio
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat would be nice is if you would apologize for the Nazi references, but if that's not forthcoming, I hope that #1 et alia will just let it go. Otherwise we have another big mess on our hands.
The SA gangs that roamed the streets in Germany during the thirties, ridiculing, degrading, provoking people and looking for trouble wore brown shirts.
You don't want that, right Ivanhoe? You don't want this forum -- which should be filled with lofty ideas and heady debate -- to be flooded with the back and forth insults. You don't want to be one 'who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion.'
Am I right?
Nemesio
Originally posted by ivanhoeSo you are accusing me of being equivalent to a Nazi storm trooper because I make jokes and sarcastic comments? Don't you realize what an incredibly distorted view of the world that is?
The SA gangs that roamed the streets in Germany during the thirties, ridiculing, degrading, provoking people and looking for trouble wore brown shirts.
I hope this explanation I gave you will not trigger any "funny" actions by you ...[text shortened]... iends not here on RHP and not on Cribs's "Forum Wars" site.
In Amazementship,
2BitLawyer - Nazi Storm trooper
PS And no Nemesio, I won't "just let go" someone saying that I am morally equivalent to murderous thugs who served the most evil regime in the 20th century! Sorry about that.
Originally posted by ivanhoeUm. I don't think you have a right to have expectations of what other people do on other sites.
I hope this explanation I gave you will not trigger any "funny" actions by you or your friends not here on RHP and not on Cribs's "Forum Wars" site.
I can guarantee that you and many other people be the topic of much discussion 'over there.'
If you don't like this idea, I really encourage you to exercise your Basic Human Freedoms and boycott the site.
As for this site, I think an apology to the people whom you called Nazi's will help to quell any future 'funny' remarks, but that's just an opinion. (Similarly, I wouldn't mind an apology for accusing me of making an Ivanhoe account over there when I was extending the olive branch, but I won't hold my breath.)
Nemesio
I gave you all a sample of your own medicine. Stop whining and crying.
Your stance here on RHP is one of moral indignation about my action of giving you guys a sample of your own medicine: Freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs. However on Cribs's "Forum Wars" you show a very different attitude. You guys are boasting about your actions here on RHP to ridicule and degrade people. You give eachother compliments for your heroic actions. You are using the descriptions I used to describe some of your unworthy actions in for instance the "Who is Norma Mc ..... What does she want thread " as war booty. You are having a good time over there. The LMAO's are very frequent to be observed. So stop pretending that your sensitive souls are hurt. I'm not buying that. And please do not tempt me to label such kind of two-faced behaviour.
Originally posted by nemesioi am sorry if my post came off chastising. that was not really my intention. i will admit that i see wrong doing on both sides. i know ivanhoe is not totally innocent. it was just my point of view on things. the whole thing has been blown up and hopefully is on its downward spiral. you are 100% correct that none of these lashes are appropriate. i chose my words poorly but i think i got my point across.
Originally posted by usmc7257
[b]to answer your question (and i certainly cant speak for ivanhoe) i think that you guys have backed him into a corner like an animal. if pushed far enough an animal would lash out furiously to protect himself from what they felt would be a dangerous situation. i am not defending anyone on the site. this is just my obse ...[text shortened]... ndencies he accused Bbarr and RoyalChicken of (I'm still not sure if I am a member).
Nemesio
thanks for your post
mike
p.s. i know i can't keep up with all of these people involved dizzying intellect (haha i have alot of trouble sometimes understanding the way you guys explain things) but if you could use a neutral party for any sort of mediation/truce let me know and i would do my best to help
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Your stance here on RHP is one of moral indignation about my action of giving you guys a sample of your own medicine: Freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs.
My only indignation is that people think it's ok for you to do it and not a member of the so-called WolfPack. People say, 'Ivanhoe was backed into a corner. What can he do?' and 'Bbarr/#1/RC you should know better.' That's crap, and I won't sit by at listen to it.
Personally, I'm with #1marauder. If this were my site, I wouldn't moderate anything except racial epithets used in a hateful manner. It's not my site, so I obey the rules here.
Originally posted by ivanhoe
You are using the descriptions I used to describe some of your unworthy actions in for instance the "Who is Norma Mc ..... What does she want thread " as war booty. You are having a good time over there. The LMAO's are very frequent to be observed.
Ivanhoe. You are welcome to find bbarr's and RC's haikus unworthy. I would never stand in your way of that. You are welcome to write haikus of your own, or use logic or whatever you want to express your irritation. If you think anyone in the WolfPack denies your right to do this, then you are mistaken.
What happens on THAT site is THAT site's business. There is no 'conspiracy;' if there were, you certainly wouldn't know about it. It would be passed amongst the would-be 'conspiritors' and held with great secrecy. If Russ has great concerns that members over there are 'conspiring' to harm his site, I am sure he would contact us.
Nothing I said over there is secret, regarding Cribs, regarding moderation, regarding censorship, and regarding consistency. Most of what I've said over there I've already said here.
I am sorry you resent this so much, but it's an opened-door site. Anyone, even you Ivanhoe, is welcome over there.
Or, alternatively, you can make your own site. Call it 'I hate the WolfPack.com.' Start a thread called 'Nemesio is a Nazi.' You won't find me complaining about it over here, that's for sure.
Originally posted by ivanhoe
So stop pretending that your sensitive souls are hurt.
The only thing that hurts me is that you are obviously so unhappy about something. I'm not really clear what precisely makes you so miserable whenever bbarr or RC or any one of 'us' posts, but I am moved to compassion to see someone hurting so much. That's why I extended the olive branch to (what I thought was) you in the Cribs forum.
When Cribs was hurting so very obviously, I tried the same thing (check my first 2 dozen posts over there).
You're a human being, Ivanhoe, and you have my compassion just by virtue of being that. I disagree vehemently with many of the things you say, but you'll never lose my compassion, even if you should call me a Nazi.
Nemesio
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou have spent month after month whining and crying and playing the victim while YOU are the one throwing around bile and vitriol on this site. It is pathetic that anyone takes you seriously at all; I don't. My stance is not one of moral indignation; my stance is that you are a digusting, reprehensible hypocrite. I don't go running to Russ or the moderators when you start with your ridiculous insults and wild charges; I have never alerted a single post on this site! Yet, you posture as a pillar of "sensible debate" but you are more guilty of aggressive name-calling than anyone on the site! And then you alert posts because you find someone criticism of someone's bad poetry offensive but your calling people "Nazis" and "scum" is OK? You are a complete joke and fraud!
I gave you all a sample of your own medicine. Stop whining and crying.
Your stance here on RHP is one of moral indignation about my action of giving you guys a sample of your own medicine: Freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs. However ...[text shortened]... lease do not tempt me to label such kind of two-faced behaviour.
What we do on other sites is none of your business; if you don't like it don't go there. We are having a good time over there, sorry that your own life is so miserable that you are jealous that other people are having fun!
My soul is certainly not sensitive; I can take anything you dish out without running to Russ or the mods for protection like you do. I just wanted you to show how sick you are that you would compare someone making jokes to some of the worst arch criminals in history! You are obviously very deeply disturbed. I suggest you get professional help and soon; but if you think you're going to bully me into acting the way that you want me to on this or any other site, you are very sadly mistaken.
In Wipingdungfrommyshoeship,
2BitLawyer
Originally posted by nemesio
Originally posted by usmc7257
[b]to answer your question (and i certainly cant speak for ivanhoe) i think that you guys have backed him into a corner like an animal. if pushed far enough an animal would lash out furiously to protect himself from what they felt would be a dangerous situation. i am not defending anyone on the site. this is just my obse ...[text shortened]... ndencies he accused Bbarr and RoyalChicken of (I'm still not sure if I am a member).
Nemesio
Nemesio: " Ivanhoe was guilty of the same 'Wolfpack' tendencies he accused Bbarr and RoyalChicken of "
You still don't seem to understand. In the recent past I frequently spoke out against people who were ridiculing, degrading and insulting other RHP members (and sometimes chasing them away from the forums). Those people decided to turn against me (of course they did, I'm not stupid) and I, of course, decided to continue this speaking out against these people (whom I later called the Wolfpack). You and others of the Wolfpack have the audacity to accuse mé of Wolfpack tactics for adressing the problems I detected and for adressing the people who are performing these Wolfpack actions. I told you before you and your friends are masters in turning things upside down.
At first they claimed as a defense they had a right to act out like that (BBarr said he had a mission to perform). When they felt they couldn't get away with that lame excuse they started accusing me of chasing them around on the forums. Sure I did. Everytime they were ridiculing, degrading and insulting people I spoke out against them. Of course these gentlemen didn't appreciate that. I didn't expect them to. They tried everything to shake me off, but everytime they returned to their pathetic little games I was there. Yes indeed very annoying .... for them, but not for their victims. I received PM's from people who thanked me for jumping in for them. The latest trick they are trying in order to be able to get away with their pathetic little games is claiming they have Freedom of Speech. Well, the day before yesterday I decided to give these forum thugs a sample of their own medicine after their unworthy actions in the "Who is Norma Mc ... ? and what does she want thread ". They want freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs? All right then I also want MY freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs. I want to call them the way I see them and I did. Now they are whining and crying, but not really as we all can experience on Cribs's site. They are having a wonderful time over there. I am not prepared to let these thugs get away with what they are doing.
I spoke out against forum thugs in the past and I will continue to do so in the future.
Originally posted by ivanhoeDo what you want, Ivanhoe. Really. Be as annoying as you want.
When they felt they couldn't get away with that lame excuse they started accusing me of chasing them around on the forums. Sure I did. Everytime they were ridiculing, degrading and insulting people I spoke out against them.
Continue to hunt people down and hound them. Continue to follow them around
and post in their threads. Continue to give people 'a little sample of their own
medicine.'
Really.
You're a troll and the uber-WolfPack Leader. You're doing the same things
you accuse other people of, except you think you have a just reason for doing
so and that others don't.
I've tried to understand your position, but it's so circular and recursive, it's
downright dizzying. I'm tired of it.
So post something after everything I say in any forum, here or there or
in my email, or whereever.
Don't be surprised when I refer to you as the UberWolfenFuehrer, though.
I'm done with this thread.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesio
Originally posted by ivanhoe
[b]Your stance here on RHP is one of moral indignation about my action of giving you guys a sample of your own medicine: Freedom of speech à la BBarr-Cribs.
My only indignation is that people think it's ok for you to do it and not a member of the so-called WolfPack. People say, 'Ivanhoe was backed into a corner ...[text shortened]... ngs you say, but you'll never lose my compassion, even if you should call me a Nazi.
Nemesio[/b]
Why don't you shut up about that "conspiracy" crap ? It is a term No1 is constantly using in order to discredit me. He invented the term and after that he is constantly accusing me of entertaining this thought. I never used this term. We have discussed this before and it was shown (by Mayharm. Thanks by the way.) that No1 introduced this term, not me.
On Cribs's site however everybody can see and read how you guys are working together. You discuss the tactics to achieve whatever you want to achieve. You organise who is recording posts and threads for the future. I thought you yourself are playing a role in this field. You guys are really working together. If you will search the Cribs's site for "working together" you will find numerous instances. I invite everybody who is interested to investigate this on his own. maybe we can open a thread about this issue and people can post the instances of you guys working together in this.
Originally posted by no1marauder
So you are accusing me of being equivalent to a Nazi storm trooper because I make jokes and sarcastic comments? Don't you realize what an incredibly distorted view of the world that is?
In Amazementship,
2BitLawyer - Nazi Storm trooper
PS And no Nemesio, I won't "just let go" someone saying that I am morally equ ...[text shortened]... valent to murderous thugs who served the most evil regime in the 20th century! Sorry about that.
No I am not. I was .....