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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    30 Nov '17 08:05
    Now that the most aggressive country in the world has a narcissistic mad man in power, what should be done about them owning one of the largest nuclear stockpiles in the world?

    The country has already invaded many different nations, they are the only country to actually have used nuclear weapons and the leadership does accept multiple civilian casualties caused by them to be crimes against humanity / war crimes.

    What should be done?

    Ps
    Yes, this is a mirror of the NK nuke thread... well spotted...
  2. 30 Nov '17 09:41
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Now that the most aggressive country in the world has a narcissistic mad man in power, what should be done about them owning one of the largest nuclear stockpiles in the world?

    The country has already invaded many different nations, they are the only country to actually have used nuclear weapons and the leadership does accept multiple civilian casualti ...[text shortened]... s.

    What should be done?

    Ps
    Yes, this is a mirror of the NK nuke thread... well spotted...
    With the same non-answers, I expect.
  3. Standard member vivify
    rain
    30 Nov '17 12:44
    The difference is that a narcissistic and unhinged man controls those nukes at his discretion.

    Oh wait....fck.
  4. 30 Nov '17 13:43
    Originally posted by @vivify
    The difference is that a narcissistic and unhinged man controls those nukes at his discretion.

    Oh wait....fck.
    The biggest difference at present is that the US nuclear arsenal is proven. Well, the US has never actually used an ICBM to deliver, target, and detonate a thermonuclear device, to my knowledge, so technically, the US and NK are alike in that regard.
  5. Standard member HandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    30 Nov '17 16:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @js357
    The biggest difference at present is that the US nuclear arsenal is proven. Well, the US has never actually used an ICBM to deliver, target, and detonate a thermonuclear device, to my knowledge, so technically, the US and NK are alike in that regard.
    They have Little Rocket Man, we have Little Schlock It Man.
  6. 30 Nov '17 17:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Now that the most aggressive country in the world has a narcissistic mad man in power, what should be done about them owning one of the largest nuclear stockpiles in the world?

    The country has already invaded many different nations, they are the only country to actually have used nuclear weapons and the leadership does accept multiple civilian casualti ...[text shortened]... s.

    What should be done?

    Ps
    Yes, this is a mirror of the NK nuke thread... well spotted...
    I’m reminded of a Dr Who story from when I was a kid; the Daleks had been very naughty and had their weapons confiscated.

    I did find it amusing that American sees itself as the global nuke police when they are the source of much of the world conflict, and with Trump at the helm I see him as being the most likely candidate to metaphorically rub one out in a fit of fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen.
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Nov '17 17:58 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I’m reminded of a Dr Who story from when I was a kid; the Daleks had been very naughty and had their weapons confiscated.

    I did find it amusing that American sees itself as the global nuke police when they are the source of much of the world conflict, and with Trump at the helm I see him as being the most likely candidate to metaphorically rub one out in a fit of fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen.
    It still is bluff on both sides, US V NK. Un knows full well he MIGHT have a couple of nukes but not small enough to mount on an ICBM but maybe in a year or two they might miniaturize them but even if he has a few ICBM's with nukes, they are not going to be at the extreme power level of US nukes which go up to multiple megaton range.

    That and we do have thousands of weapons, sub launched, aircraft carrier launched, jet figher/bomber launched and ICBM's.

    He would be totally overwhelmed in a real nuke battle and there would be no more NK, and probably nobody could even ive there for a few centuries after such a stupid nuke attack.

    Knowing that, Un is playing a rough game of chicken. His hope is to show he has nukes and thus build up his street cred only in the hopes of better sanctions deals.

    He may be mad but he is not stupid.

    If I were president, I would order every missile launched by NK to be shot out of the sky, weaponized or no. That would send a message to NK, we don't fear your piddly little rockets, we can shoot them down at will but I don't think Trumpf has the subtility to think in those terms. The down side is Un may consider it an act of war and immediately strike Seoul with everything he has depending on just how mad he really is.

    Another player is Japan, THEY might start shooting down Un's missiles on their own. I would think hard and long about that possibility if I were in Japan leadership since all the ICBM's are hitting close to Japan already, the last one went up over 3000 Km high which means it was designed to do a short flight horizontally, if the same missile was aimed lower, say max 300 Km high the angle would be a lot lower and the end point a LOT further away.

    Still, I think Un is just blustering and bluffing to get the US to lift sanctions.

    And like the OP says, what to do about US missiles. Not much anyone can do about that, the same with Russian missiles, Chinese missiles, British, French, Italian, German missiles either. Granted we have thousands, we are down by 90% of what we used to have. Since we cannot test them for real, they are also deteriorating and have a decent chance of not igniting fission or fusion when it lands or shortly before, however they intend to do that. We might have 50% duds but that still leaves us with a powerful hand nuke wise.

    I would love to see a strike team go into Russia, China, US, britain, France, Germany and so forth, kidnap ALL the damned warheads and bombs and launch then into the sun but that's not going to happen, just pipe dreams.

    Even if that happened, new work would begin immediately on making replacement nukes.
  8. 30 Nov '17 22:45 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @sonhouse to Divegeester
    It still is bluff on both sides, US V NK. Un knows full well he MIGHT have a couple of nukes but not small enough to mount on an ICBM but maybe in a year or two they might miniaturize them but even if he has a few ICBM's with nukes, they are not going to be at the extreme power level of US nukes which go up to multiple megaton range.

    Tha ...[text shortened]... dreams.

    Even if that happened, new work would begin immediately on making replacement nukes.
    Westerners tend to be ignorant (or disrespectful) of non-Western naming conventions.

    "Un knows full well ..."
    --Sonhouse

    Thoughout his post, Sonhouse refers to Kim Jong-un as 'Un'.
    Apparently, Sonhouse ignorantly believes that 'Un' is his family name (last name in the USA).
    In fact, 'Kim' is his family name. Referring to him as 'Un' would be like referring to Donald Trump as 'Ald'.
  9. 02 Dec '17 17:41
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    It still is bluff on both sides, US V NK. Un knows full well he MIGHT have a couple of nukes but not small enough to mount on an ICBM but maybe in a year or two they might miniaturize them but even if he has a few ICBM's with nukes, they are not going to be at the extreme power level of US nukes which go up to multiple megaton range.

    That and we do hav ...[text shortened]... dreams.

    Even if that happened, new work would begin immediately on making replacement nukes.
    "If I were president, I would order every missile launched by NK to be shot out of the sky, weaponized or no. That would send a message to NK, we don't fear your piddly little rockets, we can shoot them down at will but I don't think Trumpf has the subtility to think in those terms."

    If that were possible it would have already been done. Un is not mad at all. He is very smart and is doing exactly what I would do if I were him.
  10. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    03 Dec '17 08:15
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    He is very smart and is doing exactly what I would do if I were him.
    This is probably what concerns people. At least people who have read your posts on this site.
  11. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    03 Dec '17 08:24
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    It still is bluff on both sides, US V NK. Un knows full well he MIGHT have a couple of nukes but not small enough to mount on an ICBM but maybe in a year or two they might miniaturize them but even if he has a few ICBM's with nukes, they are not going to be at the extreme power level of US nukes which go up to multiple megaton range.

    That and we do hav ...[text shortened]... dreams.

    Even if that happened, new work would begin immediately on making replacement nukes.
    Latest news is that he is building a ballistic missile submarine. He wouldn't be doing this if he couldn't put a nuke on an ICBM. And as far as that goes, the Hwasong-15 is the largest they've tested so far, capable of a bigger payload and harder to shoot down. I think the danger is real, and hopefully his plan is to bring the US back to the table on a more equal footing.
  12. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    03 Dec '17 09:19
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Westerners tend to be ignorant (or disrespectful) of non-Western naming conventions.

    "Un knows full well ..."
    --Sonhouse

    Thoughout his post, Sonhouse refers to Kim Jong-un as 'Un'.
    Apparently, Sonhouse ignorantly believes that 'Un' is his family name (last name in the USA).
    In fact, 'Kim' is his family name. Referring to him as 'Un' would be like referring to Donald Trump as 'Ald'.
    I’m perfectly willing to rename Trump:

    Donuld Tramp.
    No duld tramp
    No dlup tramp
    Pulp on tramp
    Pulp in tramp
    Pulp instead of brains tramp
    Pulpy.
  13. 03 Dec '17 20:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @metal-brain to Sonhouse
    "If I were president, I would order every missile launched by NK to be shot out of the sky, weaponized or no. That would send a message to NK, we don't fear your piddly little rockets, we can shoot them down at will but I don't think Trumpf has the subtility to think in those terms."

    If that were possible it would have already been done. Un is not mad at all. He is very smart and is doing exactly what I would do if I were him.
    "Westerners tend to be ignorant (or disrespectful) of non-Western naming conventions....
    In fact, 'Kim' is his family name. Referring to him as 'Un' would be like referring to Donald Trump as 'Ald'."
    --Duchess64 (in the post just before Metal Brain's post)

    "Un is not mad at all."
    --MetalBrain

    MetalBrain (a Westerner) has corroborated my statement.
  14. 03 Dec '17 21:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne to Sonhouse
    Latest news is that he is building a ballistic missile submarine. He wouldn't be doing this if he couldn't put a nuke on an ICBM. And as far as that goes, the Hwasong-15 is the largest they've tested so far, capable of a bigger payload and harder to shoot down. I think the danger is real, and hopefully his plan is to bring the US back to the table on a more equal footing.
    "Latest news is that he [Kim Jong-un] is building a ballistic missile submarine."
    --Suzianne

    Designing an original submarine that can fire long-range missiles is extremely difficult.
    Only a few countries have succeeded in completing such a submarine.
    As far as I know, China's the only country in Asia that has such a submarine.
    I suspect that Japan could build one too, but it would need a long process of development.

    I doubt that even Israel, which has enjoyed transfer of most of the latest technology from
    the USA and Germany (reportedly including the most advanced German submarine technology)
    could design--without foreign aid--an original submarine that could fire long-range missiles.

    As a bluff, however, the DPRK could launch a missile from an underwater platform and
    pretend that it's being fired from a submarine.
  15. 03 Dec '17 21:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne to Sonhouse
    Latest news is that he is building a ballistic missile submarine. He wouldn't be doing this if he couldn't put a nuke on an ICBM. And as far as that goes, the Hwasong-15 is the largest they've tested so far, capable of a bigger payload and harder to shoot down. I think the danger is real, and hopefully his plan is to bring the US back to the table on a more equal footing.
    "I think the danger is real, and hopefully his plan is to bring the US back to the table on a more equal footing."
    --Suzianne

    I believe that Kim Jong-un has no intention of making an unprovoked nuclear first strike against the USA.
    His aim would be to use his nuclear arsenal as 1) a guarantee of his regime's survival
    and 2) a 'bargaining chip' to extract concessions in negotiations with the USA.
    He may be willing at some point to freeze his nuclear arsenal in return for economic concessions.