This time with a twist. Someone has accused a new member of being a cheater. This is funny, since the accuser is rated in the 1500's, and the “New Guy” at the site is rated in the 1700's. The victim is a very nice fellow, and who is to say they are using a computer? Heck, he even gives his USCF info in his profile for everyone to read.... and know who he really is.
I checked the game and both players had 100 percent agree from CM9000... so why would anyone playing that well anyway say someone else is a cheater!? You can't prove it, not even to yourself. I have speculated about some players, and perhaps I won't play them again. But it is impossible to say “Hey, I know you are using a computer.”
Now my new friend is not taking more games, he feels RHP is hostile. I know it can be, but I think it is one of the best chess sites ever. He is a member of another chess site, and I feel bad that he thinks that site is better... we all know it is probably not.
He got a bad experience with a poor looser, and I can't blame him for leaving. What was his evidence?
Here it is.
He was offered a draw in a tough position. He claims his son has a computer and the computer said to offer draw at this point. I am really mad about this... but don't want to use any names.
Sad thing about it is the other person who did the accusing is also a new member, and I have posted chat with them in the forums. They seemed nice enough... but now I don't much care for them.
That is my gripe... just wanted to wind it out with you guys. Grrr.
Phla-
Originally posted by PhlabibitSeems the story has not been told correctly. So I'll give another version.
I checked the game and both players had 100 percent agree from CM9000... so why would anyone playing that well anyway say someone else is a cheater!? You can't prove it, not even to yourself. I have speculated about some players, and perhaps I won't play them again. But it is impossible to say “Hey, I know you are using a computer.”
He got a bad ...[text shortened]... h them in the forums. They seemed nice enough... but now I don't much care for them.
Phla-
When I suspected I was playing a computer I went and got my son's (if you look at the game, you can probably spot where this was as White has certainly not played the strongest line) and EVERY move from that point by my opponent was as per the computer. To try to test this I made moves away from the suggested line and sure enough, the new line was followed. It was myself who offered the draw, even though I was a pawn down, because the moves were following the analysis exactly, I could have posted my opponent ALL his moves. Would a human make EVERY move as per the computer?
OK I could be wrong, but after looking further at the game I don't beleive I am. I know there are players well capable of playing EXACTLY like a computer, but at no point here did Black deviate from the STRONGEST suggested line.
P - If you wish to denounce me for this then I'm sorry, it was a private conversation which should have stayed private. If anyone cares to go through my games you'll find horrendous blunders/missed wins/beautiful sacrifices all mixed in, I think this shows my true nature. I play well, but not all the time.
- Joined
- 26 May 02
- Moves
- 72546
Originally posted by derek9037I've played through the game concerned, and it's a very ordinary game. There are no brilliant moves, no blunders - just two guys playing sensible moves that any average player could produce. I don't see the basis for your accusations. After the queens were exchanged, the moves were all very logical and obvious (in some cases forced). If a chess program suggested the same moves then that's hardly surprising as the game progressed in a predictable way,
When I suspected I was playing a computer I went and got my son's (if you look at the game, you can probably spot where this was as White has certainly not played the strongest line) and EVERY move from that point by my opponent was as per the computer. To try to test this I made moves away from the suggested line and sure enough, the new line was followe ...[text shortened]... have posted my opponent ALL his moves. Would a human make EVERY move as per the computer?
If anyone has grounds for complaint, it's your opponent. Not only did you use a program to make your moves, but you've accused him of cheating, purely because he made the moves the program expected! That’s outrageous.
Dave
Originally posted by David TebbI don't think there is a computer anywhere that would suggest move 21 by White, as it is very weak. So it's pretty obvious I wasn't playing with the help of a computer.
If a chess program suggested the same moves then that's hardly surprising as the game progressed in a predictable way,
- Joined
- 26 May 02
- Moves
- 72546
Originally posted by derek9037Nobody is suggesting you used a program in the early part of the game, only for the last few moves in the endgame, which you've admitted. However, the point is that you've accused your opponent of using a program, but used one yourself. At the very least, that's hypocritical.
I don't think there is a computer anywhere that would suggest move 21 by White, as it is very weak. So it's pretty obvious I wasn't playing with the help of a computer.
Dave
Originally posted by David TebbMy argument was (and still remains) that I find it hard to beleive that a human would follow the computer program so exactly. It was so weird playing the game late last night because I was announcing my opponents moves before he made them, and never once was I wrong. I can accept this through an opening exchange, but not for the whole game.
Nobody is suggesting you used a program in the early part of the game, only for the last few moves in the endgame, which you've admitted. However, the point is that you've accused your opponent of using a program, but used one yourself. At the very least, that's hypocritical.
Dave
I agree with Dave, it looks just like an ordinary game. There's no basis for the accusations. The sad part is, I invited this person over to this site so he could relax abit, get away from the pressures of the other site because it was obviously getting to him. On this site it seemed to be more peaceful and less hostility, at least for me it was. It was my escape so I invited him to it. In the few weeks that he has been here, I couldn't be more ashamed of some of the people of this site. He even bought a star after a few days of play. I've known this person for a long time, we write to each other almost everyday. He's an excellent chess player and his USCF rating shows it, he has been playing chess before I was even born. I'm afraid this is bad business, period. I have a few other friends who also play here that are top notch as well that are most likely getting the same treatment in there games from RHP.
-Bob
Originally posted by SkipSlotThey're clever. They have seen the posts in the forums and they make the games realistic.
I agree with Dave, it looks just like an ordinary game. There's no basis for the accusations. The sad part is, I invited this person over to this site so he could relax abit, get away from the pressures of the other site because it was obviously getting to him. On this site it seemed to be more peaceful and less hostility, at least for me it was. It was my ...[text shortened]... notch as well that are most likely getting the same treatment in there games from RHP.
-Bob
I feel very sad over this matter and the fact it has been made public. I had no desire to see anyone leave the site and for this I am truly sorry. Whether I'm right or wrong now for me is not the issue, I have made a serious error and should have just kept mum.
I will continue to take part in RHP for as long as people wish to play me, but would understand anyone with a reluctance to do so as I'm responsible for this 'situation'.
The cheating issues will never go away, but for me it is finished.
Originally posted by derek9037If life were so sublime,
I feel very sad over this matter and the fact it has been made public. I had no desire to see anyone leave the site and for this I am truly sorry. Whether I'm right or wrong now for me is not the issue, I have made a serious error and sh ...[text shortened]... The cheating issues will never go away, but for me it is finished.
that with no error we did entwine,
Would not we all wish ... THAT past,
could undo?
I think most will see it as a very human thing. Something we are all guilty of. Hope you all can just go on.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyHey ya all. The "Game Ball" goes to all of you.
If life were so sublime,
that with no error we did entwine,
Would not we all wish ... THAT past,
could undo?
I think most will see it as a very human thing. Something we are all guilty of. Hope you all can just go on.
Peace, Love, and Chess.