Yes. Another religion thread, but with a twist. I hope this discussion will not deteriorate into name calling. I am going to put forth a proposition. Will each of you respond and state your positions? Thanks.
Be it proposed:
'My religion is one that God created and recognizes. When I say that religion 'brings joy', i mean that my religion does but that the religions that cause war, murder and terror... like Wahabe Islam and Communist Atheism... are not true religions. This being the case, only my religion and those that don't cause wars and mayhem are true religions.'
If you are a christian... further state at which point your branch of christianity gave up on the idea of 'inquisition' and 'crusade' against all who are not of that religion. If your branch doesn't claim to be the only true branch... why not join to other like thinking branches? [Of Christianity]
And if you think this might be a trap... here are the first set of follow-up questions:
1 - What "physical evidence" can you present to show that your religion is more valid than Wahabeism? They have the Quoran... You have the Bible. Anything else that might be persuasive? Must be a physical object, not a subjective "idea". Something we can hold in our hands and see with our eyes and maybe smell with our noses.
2 - Barring any real evidence... what is the best "rationalization" you can put forth as to why your religion IN ALL OF IT'S HISTORY is true and better than aforementioned "bad" religions. No appeals to faith. Must be a testable, repeatable and rational idea that will pursuade by it's power of logic.
3 - Don't say that religion is "A matter of Faith". There are too many corpses over the eons of time for this to wash. "Faith" is nothing more than a blind and drunken killer. If you don't think so... prove with physical evidence why it is not so... keeping in mind you have to account for all the corpses.
Originally posted by StarValleyWySince god is the supreme being, with great powers to excess etc, would not his lack of intervention in the forming & running of these other religions indirectly mean that he has sanction them.
'My religion is one that God created and recognizes. When I say that religion 'brings joy', i mean that my religion does but that the religions that cause war, murder and terror... like Wahabe Islam and Communist Atheism... are not true religions. This being the case, only my religion and those that don't cause wars and mayhem are true religions.'
Also war requires at least 2 different sides. If the proper religion remains true to the principle of not "causing war" then they would not fight back. Not fighting back equals no war. However if the other religion is persistant that there should be a war, it will start killing the people of the proper religion (war equals = killing people). Therefore the proper religion, by their inaction of protecting themselve, are indirectly helping to cause murder & terror.
😀
Originally posted by Jay PeateaI like the way your mind works.🙂 It might take a while to figure... but "I think you said"... God sanctions all religions. Through inaction if nothing else. Interesting.
Since god is the supreme being, with great powers to excess etc, would not his lack of intervention in the forming & running of these other religions indirectly mean that he has sanction them.
Also war requires at least 2 different sides. If the proper religion remains true to the principle of not "causing war" then they would not fight back. Not fi ...[text shortened]... by their inaction of protecting themselve, are indirectly helping to cause murder & terror.
😀
By not fighting back when attacked, a religion proves itself to be true?
I would think that would also be the end of that religion because its' members will all be dead. Unless the "attackers" see the wrongness of their ways and repented before all the non-self-defending good church guys were completely murdered. But then we are faced with the dilema that the attackers have shown themselves capable of mercy and are as valid as the attackee's. Hmmm... starting to look like it might be something like tribal warfare?
Your last point about the "lack of defence" contributing to the wickedness of the attackers is brilliant. 😉 You don't write policy for some government do you Jay?😵
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYes & no it depends on what they do. If they do nothing (or choose to do nothing) then their inaction will indirectly cause murder & terror to their own people, therefore it is not a true religion. If they fight back then they will murder & terrorise the people of the other religion (again not a true religion). The only way that they can remain a true religion is if they act in manor of defending themselves but without causing murder or terror to the other religion. This is the middle path between turning the other cheek & an eye for an eye.😉
By not fighting back when attacked, a religion proves itself to be true?
Originally posted by StarValleyWyReligion isn't based on logic or any other form of evidence, it's based on faith...
And if you think this might be a trap... here are the first set of follow-up questions:
1 - What "physical evidence" can you present to show that your religion is more valid than Wahabeism? They have the Quoran... You have the Bible. Anything else that might be persuasive? Must be a physical object, not a subjective "idea". Something we can hold ...[text shortened]... h physical evidence why it is not so... keeping in mind you have to account for all the corpses.
Olav
Originally posted by Jay PeateaI think you have it nailed. Middle is always good... "Middle" pretty well shoots down "extreme". Middle rates "Good to Excellent" on the humanity scale. I tried to think of some argument to what you say, but can't really come up with anything. 😞 I don't know whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.😵
Yes & no it depends on what they do. If they do nothing (or choose to do nothing) then their inaction will indirectly cause murder & terror to their own people, therefore it is not a true religion. If they fight back then they will murder & terrorise the people of the other religion (again not a true religion). The only way that they can remain a true rel ...[text shortened]... e other religion. This is the middle path between turning the other cheek & an eye for an eye.😉
Originally posted by LivingLegendThat is the point of this thread's creation. Those of us with no religion should strive more to allow you religious guys freedom to do as you will. You who believe we are damned for not believing need to respect our desire not to be preached at. I know this works because I am the only one in my extended family who doesn't believe and I get on famously with all of my family. I only have three athiest/agnostic friends, but I have a hundred religious friends... "A friend is a freind because of who they are... not what they do or do not worship." Arguing religion is so emotional that it is the fastest way in the world to destroy respect for one another.
Religion isn't based on logic or any other form of evidence, it's based on faith...
Olav
I am trying to do better, but it is difficult not to spout off in the forums. I think the reason is because we all are not Face To Face. It is really amazing when you get that "human" touch involved. The smile, the laugh... or grimace, as is the case of my friends when i try to be witty... is sorely missing in electronic communication.
I have said my last on "Religion" in the forums. It gives me no joy to try and agrue it.
Peace...
Mr. StarValleyWy, I think I agree with you.
Well, not on everything of course 😉
But we on all fronts of these debates seem to be accomplishing very little. Now that my discussion with Feivel (which has actually been in some respects productive) seems to be winding down, I may just have to join you in refusal to debate religious matters. The faceless character of forum discussion does, as you say, make things difficult.
While I'm here, I want to apologize for any ill feelings that may exist between us. I'll be sending off my subscription payment tomorrow, so I'll be around a while and would very much enjoy some non-religious discussion and even a game or two in the future.
By the way, you'd be wise to be nice to me. Bears have mighty powers after all, and I can get into the works and fiddle around with your games as easily as with mine 🙂 Perhaps you'll be making some unsound Queen sacrifices in the near future . . . 😵
Originally posted by huntingbearThanks huntingbear... It will be a pleasure to debate "regular" stuff. I don't plan on playing much chess this next year. I'm here pretty much for the forum discussions. 😵
Mr. StarValleyWy, I think I agree with you.
Well, not on everything of course 😉
But we on all fronts of these debates seem to be accomplishing very little. Now that my discussion with Feivel (which has actually been in some respects productive) seems to be winding down, I may just have to join you in refusal to debate religious matters. The faceless c ...[text shortened]... with mine 🙂 Perhaps you'll be making some unsound Queen sacrifices in the near future . . . 😵
PS... didn't mean to impune all of you "bears". It's just that one very mysterious one with the glowing nose that worrys me. I think you must admit... he seems to have a certain almost "supernatural" look to him. It could be his tongue... i think. Or the wardrobe.
By the way... what and how does a well urbanized bear hunt these days?😏
Originally posted by StarValleyWyHmmn. I can't really say. Hunting Bear is now sort of a misnomer. I like to think I'm Resting Bear now, but actually I think I'm Family Raising Bear. The Rest will have to wait 🙂
Thanks huntingbear... It will be a pleasure to debate "regular" stuff. I don't plan on playing much chess this next year. I'm here pretty much for the forum discussions. 😵
PS... didn't mean to impune all of you "bears". It's just that one very mysterious one with the glowing nose that worrys me. I think you must admit... he seems to have a c ...[text shortened]... nk. Or the wardrobe.
By the way... what and how does a well urbanized bear hunt these days?😏
The name Hunting Bear comes from the days when my wife and I first met, and it would be a little difficult to explain it.
Say, on the topic of RHP names, what does yours mean? Especially the "Wy" part. I realize we're way off the thread topic now, but I don't suppose anyone will hold that too much against me. 😀
Originally posted by huntingbearThen if you are "Bear Raising"... your real name is "Tired Bear"!😉
Hmmn. I can't really say. Hunting Bear is now sort of a misnomer. I like to think I'm Resting Bear now, but actually I think I'm Family Raising Bear. The Rest will have to wait 🙂
The name Hunting Bear comes from the days when my wife and I first met, and it would be a little difficult to explain it.
Say, on the topic of RHP names, what does yours m ...[text shortened]... way off the thread topic now, but I don't suppose anyone will hold that too much against me. 😀
Enjoy. The family raising part of life is by far the best. You are needed and loved. Doesn't get much better than that.
Star Valley, Wyoming. I was born there and have called it home on several occasions. I have my roots there. On the map, just 65 miles south of Jackson. Afton, Wyoming is home of the perrenial state football class A champion "Star Valley Braves".😀
When I first logged into RHP... like the rest of us i guess... I had no Idea i would be stuck with "StarValleyWy" forever. If i had known, i would have chosen "Pontificater" or some such more apt description.😕
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYou're right, "Tired Bear" fits well. But you are also right how wonderful it is. Loved for tired is a good trade.
Then if you are "Bear Raising"... your real name is "Tired Bear"!😉
Enjoy. The family raising part of life is by far the best. You are needed and loved. Doesn't get much better than that.
Star Valley, Wyoming. I was born there and have called it home on several occasions. I have my roots there. On the map, just 65 miles south of Jackson. Afton, ...[text shortened]... rever. If i had known, i would have chosen "Pontificater" or some such more apt description.😕
I suspected it might be Wyoming. Star Valley sounds like a Wyoming sort of name for a city.
I think you've hit on a good topic for a new thread: "If you could change your RHP name, what would you choose?"