It seems like this method of cheating is used regularly here at RHP, so take a closer look at this:
Cheater decides he has found a great new foolproof way to increase his rating. He will create a few Dummy players and have them lose to him after a few moves. This will allow Cheater's rating to climb quickly!
Now lets take a closer look at the way it really works....
At first cheater's rating does in fact go up. But each time it goes up, Dummy's rating goes down. Before long cheater isn't getting very many points for beating Dummy. So he needs to have a new Dummy so he can get more points per game. But the new Dummy only has a provisional rating of 1200, so that still isn't going to get too many points for Cheater when he beats the new Dummy.
I haven't worked out the math, but it looks like Cheater is only going to go up a few hundred points using this method, and he's going to have to put in a whole lot of work in order to do that. He will reach a point where he will not be able to gain much from beating the Dummies.
If Cheater is still serious about this, he could at this point play the dummies off against each other to inflate one of their ratings, then play himself against that one to get those extra points.
But....
He will have to alternate logging on and off for himself and then each of the Dummy's for each of their moves. He will have to go through the 'rematch' procedure after each phony game to get the next one started. He will have to keep working harder and continue to get fewer points for his effort.
I would expect that sooner or later even the dumbest cheater will realize that they're busting their butt for absolutely nothing. But maybe I'm wrong about that because someone tries this method every couple of months.🙄
Usually someone notices these phony games right away, when cheater starts getting his rating to go up. This usually leads to some unfriendly attention and possibly even being banned from the site.
If cheater manages to remain undetected and finally decides to play a real game and loses, there goes the points he gained by cheating, after all that hard work! :'(
Does using this method to cheat make any sense at all? Did I overlook something that would make this particular method sensible in any way?
Cheating in any manner doesn't make any sense to me, but this particular system seems totally stupid to me.
By the way, this isn't directed at anyone in particular. It's just that we've seen this happen a few times, and I'm trying to comprehend how this makes any sense....
regards, Marc
One thing I've always wondered is: What methods do Russ and Chrismo have to detect players using programs to make their moves? I've played at many different chess sites before, and each one always has this problem sooner or later. I know this community seems like a chess player's dream (and it pretty much is!), but just incase, I would like to know if these progs can be detected and dealt with. Maybe it says in the FAQ somewhere. Meh.
-Kev
Originally posted by mwmillerYou may have overlooked something.Our cheater doesn't have to log on and off every time when he plays the dummy's out against each other.he can use two email adresses and open up two windows.Or does rhp detect the comp's adress which would make it impossible?
It seems like this method of cheating is used regularly here at RHP, so take a closer look at this:
Cheater decides he has found a great new foolproof way to increase his rating. He will create a few Dummy players and have them lose to ...[text shortened]... ng to comprehend how this makes any sense....
regards, Marc
Not that it would make any more sense,but at least it makes it a little less hard work.
Originally posted by SirLoseALotI hadn't thought of opening extra windows for each of the Dummies. It still seems like it would require a lot of major effort.
You may have overlooked something.Our cheater doesn't have to log on and off every time when he plays the dummy's out against each other.he can use two email adresses and open up two windows.Or does rhp detect the comp's adress which would make it impossible?
Not that it would make any more sense,but at least it makes it a little less hard work.
Marc
Originally posted by jgvaccaroi remember a while back someone claimed to have exposed someone else's use of Fritz. if i remember correctly, they ran a number of the player's games through it, and Fritz made identical moves in every case...
I don't think there are any such methods. The site basically relies on the honor system.
Originally posted by dfm65I've never agreed with this kind of 'proof'.It has too many weak spots.First of all it depends on what kind of games you examine.Some opening lines are even examined as far as checkmate,you can find them on the net,no problem.Of course,one side must have chosen a bad line for this to happen.Second,if it are highly tactical games you can already forget about it.In tactical skirmishes there is usually just one move that leads to a win.You and I can find it if our tactical ability is good enough.Furthermore there is the possibility of looking up the position (or similar ones) in databases and play it out like a real GM,it's legal in corr chess.
i remember a while back someone claimed to have exposed someone else's use of Fritz. if i remember correctly, they ran a number of the player's games through it, and Fritz made identical moves in every case...
So you would have to pick more positional games.Then there's the problem of how much time do you give fritz,you have no idea of how much time the supposed cheater let fritz think on every move.And it makes a big difference wether you give it 10 minutes or 1 hour or 2 hours etc....It also makes a difference how powerfull your computer is,another bit of information that's missing.
I don't think it can be proven this way.At best,it can be an indication,no more.
Sir Lot.
Originally posted by seraphimvultureThe method I originally outlined in this thread requires the use of extra dummies to make it work.
One thing I've always wondered is: What methods do Russ and Chrismo have to detect players using programs to make their moves? I've played at many different chess sites before, and each one always has this problem sooner or later. I know this community seems like a chess player's dream (and it pretty much is!), but just incase, I would like to kno ...[text shortened]... these progs can be detected and dealt with. Maybe it says in the FAQ somewhere. Meh.
-Kev
If someone uses a program to cheat and win games, no extra dummies are needed.
I don't know how the use of programs is detected.
regards, Marc
Originally posted by mwmillerI remember when I was starting to play online chess back in 1996 or 1997 under AOL in the "gamezone". While playing online blitz against an opponent, a small green symbol appeared on the screen, turning to yellow or even to red, when any other program (maybe a chess program) was running on the opponent's computer. While the symbol was red, you could interrupt the game at once and it hasn't been rated. But that was back in the times of Windows 95 and it won't work for real correspondence chess, either by e- or snail mail or on a website like this. Those who want to use chess programs have a good chance not to be identified, even if I have to admit, that during an actual post-mortem-analysis, when I, of course, used Fritz to discover my tactical blunders, found out that my opponent was playing exactly the moves which Fritz proposes for the whole game ... 😲
If someone uses a program to cheat and win games, no extra dummies are needed.
I don't know how the use of programs is detected.
regards, Marc
regards, BlackBuck
Originally posted by mwmillerSkeeter once told me she can tell when someone is using a computer, just by the moves.....
The method I originally outlined in this thread requires the use of extra dummies to make it work.
If someone uses a program to cheat and win games, no extra dummies are needed.
I don't know how the use of programs is detected.
regards, Marc
Fievel wanted to play my CM9K... and beat the heck out of it! SirLoseALot played my CM9K with his Fritz8... And they drew the game!
So, if someone is cheating with a computer... they will not get bast the top humans on this site.
P-
Originally posted by PhlabibitAhum,fritz7,old version.Don't boost the quality of your CM with false statements 😉😛
Skeeter once told me she can tell when someone is using a computer, just by the moves.....
Fievel wanted to play my CM9K... and beat the heck out of it! SirLoseALot played my CM9K with his Fritz8... And they drew the game!
So, if someone is cheating with a computer... they will not get bast the top humans on this site.
P-
On the topic,I know a guy on ICC who's,so far,100% accurate at pointing out comp cheaters.He just goes through a game,rather quickly even and then he knows.This does not mean he can detect every cheater,but when he says you do,he's always been right,so far.He told me he looks for patterns.Apparently a chess engine follows certain patterns?At least that's what I made out of his brief explanation.