An Addendum to this thread...
We are tossing the term "Islam" about rather casually. But for our purposes, this is the version that is striving for "Shariah", which is the establishment of "God's Government" among all nations. This version of Islam, which is quickly becoming the majority point of view, sees the "Non-Shariah" Muslims as "false muslim" and hate them even more than they hate the "jahili" barbarians. This is the basic reason for the Iran/Iraq war. It was one set of totallitarians (Iran) who had established a "Shariahic State" , murdering over eight thousand women their first week in power for various supposed crimes, and the Bathist Socialists who's cult of death was only interested in the "Nationalistic" version to totallitarianism. Think USSR vs. Germany in WW2 and that is a close analogy. Especially if you think of Karl Marx, A German, serving as the "God" of Communism. Enough to make your head spin.😕
The German's were nationalists. The USSR were globalists. Kind of like the "Shariah" branch fighting for "God's One World Government".
Back to original point. It is becoming more difficult, on threat of banishment, and death even, to oppose the "God's Government" idea.
So Apologies go out to what I would call "True Muslims"... You are on these nuts' hit list with the rest of us. That makes us allies.
"I think it is difficult for us as a society to grasp that an entire culture holds these principles".
Thank God, it is not an entire culture that holds these principles,
as StarValleyWy points out in his above post. That's why I have stated that the Islamist Movement is in essence a political movement that wants to seize power in one way or the other and the ideology they are using to get support among the Muslem population is a fear based extreme interpretation of the Islam. The Islam religion is being misused for political purposes.
Examples of these political battles:
The very cruel Algerian civil war, The Chetchen war, the bombings in Egypt to disturb the tourist industry, the murdering of the Egyptian president, the "religious" rivalries in Pakistan, India, Iraq, Iran and of course the most important regional conflict that fuells this world wide struggle the Israely-Palestinian conflict. The Islamists do not want this conflict to end because they can use it in their propaganda war against the Big Satan, the US and their friends the Israelis. Therefore to make peace in the Middle East is a must in the war against Terrorism. This, among other things, is what I mean when I say that this war against terrorism cannot be won with solely military means, or with a one liner: This war will not be won on the battlefield. The US Secretary of State Colin Powell and the National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice hold these views and I hope with all my heart that President Bush will listen to their advice rather than the advice of the Washington hawks.
Originally posted by ivanhoeAnd do what Ivan? Not fight the war that is being waged whether we engage it or not? Do what? Nothing? Against totallitarian murderers? Show an example where "doing nothing" works against insane killers locked into a cult of death. Anxious to hear your solution. I'll mail it off to Hamas so they can see your truth and stop their killing of their own children in the name of god. By the way, your solution is what Qtub referred to as the "divided, corrupt pragmatism of the west" argument. He relied on your very argument to assure the world that the corrupt west is incapable of defending itself. The crazies who are perverting his teachings took it a bit too literally. I wonder if they are having any second thoughts with our tanks poised on the borders of several of the most vile dictatorships left in the world? Probably not. They rely on people like you to protect them, and you do a generally good job of it.
The US Secretary of State Colin Powell and the National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice hold these views and I hope with all my heart that President Bush will listen to their advice rather than the advice of the Washington hawks.
[/b]
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI do not advocate doing nothing. I advocate using our heads first and then if necessary our fists. I am not a pacifist. You are reading all these stories about the French pre war WWII situation and you conveniently asssume that I'm a representative of the "broken rifle" movement in those days. You think it is easier to consume me when you label all kinds of entities on me and all kind of views I do not hold. Be carefull you do not take a bite that is too much for you to digest.
And do what Ivan? Not fight the war that is being waged whether we engage it or not? Do what? Nothing? Against totallitarian murderers? Show an example where "doing nothing" works against insane killers locked into a cult of death. A ...[text shortened]... e like you to protect them, and you do a generally good job of it.
I agree with you that these Islamist extremists are totalitarian murderers. I'm willing to go even further. It is a new form of fascism, a form of fascism wearing the mask of religion, but when you look under the mask you discover the true nature.So, we dó have to fight that war, but please let us not panic, let us use our heads. The Islamists who are counting on the "divided, corrupt pragmatism of the West", they will be proven wrong. ... and by the way, StarValleyWy, isn't it time to refrain from sentences like "They rely on people like you to protect them, and you do a generally good job of it ." You are trying to teach me how to communicate. Is this the way you want me to communicate with you ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeYea. I was always taught to "use the head first" in battle. I even wrote a song about it. It's called "A Grazing Mace" and goes like this...
I do not advocate doing nothing. I advocate using our heads first and then if necessary our fists. I am not a pacifist. You are reading all these stories about the French pre war WWII situation and you conveniently asssume that I'm a representative of the "broken rifle" movement in those days. You think it is easier to consume me when you label all kinds ...[text shortened]... ying to teach me how to communicate. Is this the way you want me to communicate with you ?
A Grazing Mace... How Sweet the sound,
Of Crunching bone Can Be!
I once was Bonked but now I'm found,
How sweet that sound to me.
I have not labeled anything or anyone, Ivan. If you want a label, make it yourself. I have never even heard of the "Broken Rifle" whatever. Sorry.
Ok. Yes. I was wrong to say that you are for appeasement at any cost. I apologize. How's that. As to communicating, we have made real progress here. For the first time since we began harrassing each other I know a few of your opinions. Thank you for that.
Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Yea. I was always taught to "use the head first" in battle. I even wrote a song about it. It's called "A Grazing Mace" and goes like this...
A Grazing Mace... How Sweet the sound,
Of Crunching bone Can Be!
I once was Bonked but now I'm found,
How sweet that sound to me.
I have not labeled anything or anyone, Ivan. If you want a la ...[text shortened]... rst time since we began harrassing each other I know a few of your opinions. Thank you for that.
You're welcome StarValleyWy.
I'm going to check out a few of my chessgames and after that it's nighty night to you all. Sleepen Sie wellen ... 😴
Ivan The Terrible