Originally posted by nemesioThis is the best post yet posted on this subject.
Russ, et alia,
I apologize in general for posting on the subject, seeing as you have asked that we might cool down, but I think that you, and we all, realize that there is a deep controversy here. I know that you have a lot to read, but I hope that you (all) will consider reading this post in spite of its length.
First, let me acknowledge, as I am sure ...[text shortened]... gestions for your, and the community's, perusal and am,
Respectfully yours,
Nemesio
Originally posted by pradtfIn my opinion, it is not, because it censures instead of councels. Nem's post is better because it addressess the issue of moderation inconsistencies. Read my example in the 'help & ideas" forum
no the best post on this subject is the first one in this thread, you know, the one by russ.
in friendship,
prad
skeeter
Is it really important whose post is better? Less than two hours
after my post, there is already bickering. This is why Russ is
frustrated.
I don't mean to be harsh. But when Russ said he was tired,
I'm sure this is what he meant. If this continues, one doesn't
have to be prescient to predict that the next significant escalation
will be the innuendo of insult, and, shortly thereafter one can
easily predict full-blown fighting words. Having to rifle through a
bunch of silly posts has to be draining on a person.
The topic is charged one, and, as a result, we must all be
vigilant about saying things which are laden with emotion
and lacking in relevance or, worse yet, substance.
I'm sorry to be so direct; I mean this for myself as well.
I'm off to bed to rest and to contemplate. In any event
I have a big day tomorrow.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesioIs it really important whose post is better? Less than two hours
I don't mean to be harsh. But when Russ said he was tired,
I'm sure this is what he meant. If this continues, one doesn't
have to be prescient to predict that the next significant escalation
will be the innuendo of insult, and, shortly thereafter one can
easily predict full-blown fighting words. Having to rifle through a
bunch of silly posts ...[text shortened]... off to bed to rest and to contemplate. In any event
I have a big day tomorrow.
Nemesio
after my post, there is already bickering. This is why Russ is
frustrated.
No, but prad's post might explain something about the attitudes toward moderation he expressed in other threads. I was asking for clarification of those beliefs.
Russ, I just would like to ask you to be very careful with enforcing the policies. Before RHP I played at Gameknot for ~2 years. GK had great forums and community at some point, but it is all history now. GK webmaster started with excessive banning which only heated the situation. Result: non-chess related forum was eventually closed, every post which is considered not related to chess/GK (and it is actually every post which is not in agreement with webmaster point of view) is being deleted/and posters are being banned. 3 bans = lifetime ban. A lot of players left Gameknot as the result of this. In my opinion, RHP is much better and lively place at the moment. Please try to not break the balance...
PS: Gameknot forums desintegration started with long heated threads about religion (deja vu?) and war in iraq.
Originally posted by TovMauzerWell post, we all want the best for this site and their members.
Russ, I just would like to ask you to be very careful with enforcing the policies. Before RHP I played at Gameknot for ~2 years. GK had great forums and community at some point, but it is all history now. GK webmaster started with excessive bunning which only heated the situation. Result: non-chess related forum was eventually closed, every post which is c ...[text shortened]... n, RHP is much better and lively place at the moment. Please try to not break the balance...
Originally posted by skeeterhere is my take as to why russ' post is better.
In my opinion, it is not, because it censures instead of councels. Nem's post is better because it addressess the issue of moderation inconsistencies. Read my example in the 'help & ideas" forum
skeeter
while nemesio's post is definitely a good one (as always, imo), it asks for better moderation, in essence.
russ is asking that we be better, in essence.
if we follow the latter, the former will also happen.
you already know how i feel about what you went through. if we follow russ' idea, that will never happen to anyone again.
i have looked at your post in the help forum. it is very good. though i used to visit the forums regularly, i really wasn't aware of the abundance of creativity resident here, till i saw a string of these comments together 😀
i know i am laughing, but it really isn't funny. people shouldn't be like that and those phrases should never have made it into any posts. the reason i think they are still there, is because they may not have been seen by the mods - everyone doesn't click the alert button and the mods really cannot read through all the posts.
consistency is desirable and i have no doubt the mods do their best to achieve it and i get the feeling we'll all see even better in the future as well, especially if we can all make an effort to work together on this.
the key is going to be to follow russ' request and be better.
in friendship,
prad
ps: rc, i hope you see that i have answered you here. if you want further clarification of my beliefs, you'll find them in my posts.
pps: nemesio, i did not mean to imply a competition here and thank you for both your understanding and for your comment starting "Is it really important ...".
you are absolutely right too - the bickering must stop.
i will follow your example.
Originally posted by pradtfPrad..... I gave up.
here is my take as to why russ' post is better.
while nemesio's post is definitely a good one (as always, imo), it asks for better moderation, in essence.
russ is asking that we be better, in essence.
if we follow the latter, the f ...[text shortened]... t ...".
you are absolutely right too - the bickering must stop.
Good work.
p-
I love this site, think Russ is doing a great job and have never had a problem with a moderator (Even though I'm a complete jerk)
. BUT ............
I think significant leeway should be granted to people expressing their opinions in the forums, even if that opinion is mod B is doing a lousy job or subsriber A is an idiot. They are FORUMs, places where you voice your opinions, right? Below my post as I'm writing is an admonition not to spam, flame or use "excessively offensive language"; if that's the rules being given to everyone I think they should be liberally construed. There is nothing banning "personal attacks" and I do not know if two people can reasonably agree on such a definition. I can see if player A says player B is a (pick derogatory, generic, obsene insult), but other than that I just don't know.
And I don't know how to say this without upsetting people but we are paying for this site and when we agreed to do so we agreed to the rules that were posted. If a new rule is de facto enforced like "Thou shalt not criticize a moderator" that is a change in what we agreed. I certainly don't want Russ to be completely disgusted with the site (which is a great one) but maybe one way to cut down on the unnecessary bickering is A) Let things go until there is a clear violation of the TOS and B) Not have an "alert moderator" link after every post thereby encouraging malcontents (the small group Russ mentions) to bring a complaint every time their panties are in a bunch. The moderators are well known and could be PM'ed if something was really out of hand.
Just my thoughts.
I don't think the moderators are well known, I've been playing here almost everyday for nearly a year and have been active in the forums and I can't name them. Not only are the moderators not well known, neither are the Terms Of Service nor what should and should not be moderable. This is the problem we have and this is why at this point a time out should be taken and Russ should take the opportunity to clarify the rules and thereafter enforce them.
Originally posted by ExyOK, Exy agreed. But it offends me that you people keep playing that damn Scandinavian against me when they know I hate it; can't we amend the TOS on that as well???
I don't think the moderators are well known, I've been playing here almost everyday for nearly a year and have been active in the forums and I can't name them. Not only are the moderators not well known, ever are the Terms Of Service and neither does it appear are what should and should not be moderable. This is the problem we have and this is why at this p ...[text shortened]... be taken and Russ should take the opportunity to clarify the rules and thereafter enforce them.