Originally posted by PocketKingsI dont really wont to vote on the men .
I have taken many trips to Cooperstown to visit the famed Baseball Hall of Fame.
The 2006 ballot looks pretty weak to me. besides Don Mattingly I'm not blown away by the names on this list. Who would you vote for?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/12/11/decision.2006/index.html
Originally posted by PocketKingsTons of closers on the ballot this year. Rick Aguilera, Lee Smith, Doug Jones and John Wetteland; guys who I've completely forgot existed.
I have taken many trips to Cooperstown to visit the famed Baseball Hall of Fame.
The 2006 ballot looks pretty weak to me. besides Don Mattingly I'm not blown away by the names on this list. Who would you vote for?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/12/11/decision.2006/index.html
Anyways, Don Mattingly, Jim Rice, Jack Morris and possibly Will Clark would get my vote.
Albert Belle? LOL.
Originally posted by PocketKingsAlan Trammell and Jack Morris only.
I have taken many trips to Cooperstown to visit the famed Baseball Hall of Fame.
The 2006 ballot looks pretty weak to me. besides Don Mattingly I'm not blown away by the names on this list. Who would you vote for?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/12/11/decision.2006/index.html
But I think there's too many people in the Hall of Fame as it is. Instead of taking only the greatest players, it seems like they end up taking almost everyone who didn't stink.
Originally posted by rwingetti agree. i don't think you need to have a ballot every year
Alan Trammell and Jack Morris only.
But I think there's too many people in the Hall of Fame as it is. Instead of taking only the greatest players, it seems like they end up taking almost everyone who didn't stink.
Originally posted by rwingettYou're right about that... I think there are definitely too many people in the hall... but that's primarily because of the very sloppy work done by the Veteran's Committees in the 1940s and 1970s...In those years, there was no limit as to how many players went in per year, so they were inducting their old buddies by the truckload. And really didn't come close to honoring the best players of baseball's early days...
Alan Trammell and Jack Morris only.
But I think there's too many people in the Hall of Fame as it is. Instead of taking only the greatest players, it seems like they end up taking almost everyone who didn't stink.
The BBWAA has actually done a fairly decent job among the players of the last 30 years or so... but still, every now and then, a selection is made that makes you wonder, "why this guy and not that guy?".
Definitely a ton of great closers on the ballot this year... Lee Smith, a dominant closer for many years, is on the ballot for the 4th time... he's the all time saves leader at 478, I don't know why he wouldn't be in there... I think at the time he retired, he was the only guy over 400...
Goose Gossage was another dominant closer who also made major contributions to winning teams... and this guy wasn't coming into games to pitch to one and only one batter... he would frequently go 2 or 3 innings in one appearance... nothing against Mariano Rivera, but it cracks me up nowadays when a guy pitches one inning in a playoff game, and then you wonder if you'll even see him again in the series...
If Rivera pitches 2 innings, forget it...you might not see him for a week...
Mattingly has a tough case... even though the Yanks had, I believe, the best combined record in the AL during the 1980s, they never made the postseason after Mattingly got there, until 1995, his last year... he did win 9 gold gloves (thanks to Hernandez being in the NL), but I don't think his career numbers are where a first baseman would need to be...I think Garvey would be a better choice, won some pennants, even as a Padre, and well as being an awesome postseason performer. (.294 reg season career, .338 postseason)...of course, if I'm a manager going into the 7th game of the World Series, I'd just as soon have Mattingly in my lineup as anyone else...
Originally posted by TheBloopTheIdiot: If Rivera pitches 2 innings, forget it...you might not see him for a week...
You're right about that... I think there are definitely too many people in the hall... but that's primarily because of the very sloppy work done by the Veteran's Committees in the 1940s and 1970s...In those years, there was no limit as to how many players went in per year, so they were inducting their old buddies by the truckload. And really didn't come ...[text shortened]... he 7th game of the World Series, I'd just as soon have Mattingly in my lineup as anyone else...
Rivera regularly pitches two innings or more in post season games as even a cursory follower of baseball would know.
2 edits
Originally posted by TheBloopWhich means he "regularly pitches two innings or more in postseason games". And he usually doesn't take a week off afterwards.
Rivera's career postseason totals are 111 2/3 innings in 72 games, an average of 1.5 innings per game...
EDIT: Goose Gossage in 19 post season games, pitched 31 1/3 or 1.65 per game. http://baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml
Rivera by your numbers averages 1.57 per game in far more appearances. The difference is trivial.
Originally posted by no1marauderIf you look at their regular season statistics, you see that:
Which means he "regularly pitches two innings or more in postseason games". And he usually doesn't take a week off afterwards.
EDIT: Goose Gossage in 19 post season games, pitched 31 1/3 or 1.65 per game. http://baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml
Rivera by your numbers averages 1.57 per game in far more appearances. The difference is trivial.
Gossage started 37 games between 1972 and 1976, so we won't count those years. Between 1977 and 1994 he made 814 relief appearances and pitched 1,224.7 innings. This is an average of 1.5 innings per relief appearance.
Rivera started 10 games in 1995, so likewise we will throw those stats out. Between 1996 and 2005 he made 638 relief appearances and pitched 739.7 innings. This is an average of 1.16 innings per relief appearance.
We see that Gossage's 1.5 innings per relief appearance is noticibly more than Rivera's 1.16. But I think this speaks more to the evolution of the closer's role in baseball, rather than to Gossage's supposed durability.
Originally posted by rwingettI think it speaks more to the increased role of "set up" men and the influence of Sparky Anderson and Tony LaRussa style managing. The point was that Rivera, when it is necessary, pitches two innings on a regular basis, contrary to the Bloop's assertion.
If you look at their regular season statistics, you see that:
Gossage started 37 games between 1972 and 1976, so we won't count those years. Between 1977 and 1994 he made 814 relief appearances and pitched 1,224.7 innings. This is an average of 1.5 innings per relief appearance.
Rivera started 10 games in 1995, so likewise we will throw those stats ...[text shortened]... the evolution of the closer's role in baseball, rather than to Gossage's supposed durability.