Only for those who are interested in political Islam:
Hizb-ut-Tahrir is having a meeting in the Netherlands in the "de Kuip" sportstadium, Rotterdam on the 6th of March.
Googling on Hizb-ut-Tahrir :
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=170
Some quotes:
"Hizb-ut-Tahir members also explained to Forum 18 that the party would give all non-Muslim states a choice between either joining the Caliphate under Sharia law, or paying a tax to the Caliphate. Failure to pay the tax would be punished by military attacks."
"Blatant anti-Semitism is a characteristic of the party's ideology. ...... One Uzbek member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir expressed his regret to Forum 18 that Hitler had not succeeded in eliminating all Jews."
This is what people are talking about when they are referring to certain muslims, the Islamists, the political Islam.
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In case people think these political Islam factions do not base their ideologies on the Qur'an the following Qur'an quote may help them to think otherwise:
Qur'an's Sura 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
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http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID1446600_TYP1_NAVSPM2~2856114_REF2,00.html
Verbot für weitere Islamisten-Organisation
Bundesinnenminister Otto Schily hat die islamistische Organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami (Partei der islamischen Befreiung) verboten. Die Organisation richte sich gegen den Gedanken der Völkerverständigung, sagte Schily zur Begründung im ARD- Morgenmagazin. Sie verneine das Existenzrecht des Staates Israel und fordere zur Tötung von Juden auf.
This article states that the Hizb-ut-Tahrir party has been forbidden by the German government, because it is a anti-semitic organisation.
Originally posted by ivanhoeHere is what the Koran says about unbelievers:
In case people think these political Islam factions do not base their ideologies on the Qur'an the following Qur'an quote may help them to think otherwise:
Qur'an's Sura 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, ( ...[text shortened]... ok, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
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"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers".
"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him".
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful".
"O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand".
Such a peaceful religion!
Originally posted by Vargis that all that the Koran says about unbeleivers? Is it talking about all unbeleivers, or just one group who had happened to have pissed them off at the time? My knowledge of the Koran is pitiful but I have heard that these words come at the end and mostly contradict the rest, which talks of peace & understanding.
Here is what the Koran says about unbelievers:
"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers".
"O ye who b ...[text shortened]... disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand".
Such a peaceful religion!
I could take extracts of other religious volumes that are far more vicous and against the general tone of the rest of the works. It's a shame that people will take the section that they want to and twist it to justify their actions, but some people will do that anyway regardless of which religion or political ideology they profess to follow.
Originally posted by belgianfreakI said in another post that similar things could probably said of the bible if you care to look for them. I assume Judaism is the same as Old Testament bible which is where most of the nasty stuff comes anyway.
is that all that the Koran says about unbeleivers? Is it talking about all unbeleivers, or just one group who had happened to have pissed them off at the time? My knowledge of the Koran is pitiful but I have heard that these words come at the end and mostly contradict the rest, which talks of peace & understanding.
I could take extracts of othe ...[text shortened]... e will do that anyway regardless of which religion or political ideology they profess to follow.
I gotta agree with the freak, posting these exerpts does not mean that Muslims will do these things or even that they agree with them. I think that all you have done is to demonstrate that there are extremist statements in the Koran. There are plenty in your bible too. Doesn't mean you're gonna kill me cos i call jesus an imbecile that has caused more harm than good. Yes that statement probably makes you mad and i'm sure you can find justification to burn me at the stake in the good book but you won't. Because your are a rational human being, just like the majority of muslims.
Originally posted by Black LungThis thread, Black Lung, is obviously NOT about the majority of Muslims, but about those Muslims that abuse the Islam religion in order to start a so called Jihad against the western World and they mean business. Therefore all these references to the Bible and Christians are not that relevant. These references are all meant to try and rationalise away the real threat posed by these Islamist Muslims.
I gotta agree with the freak, posting these exerpts does not mean that Muslims will do these things or even that they agree with them. I think that all you have done is to demonstrate that there are extremist statements in the Koran. The ...[text shortened]... our are a rational human being, just like the majority of muslims.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeMy point, ivan, is that there is more to terrorism than a few obscure references in the Koran. Anyone can be a terrorist. I personally don't think that Islam is the common thread to terrorism, that is the point I am trying to make. You make it sound like the only reason these people are some vehemently opposed to the west is because of their religion. This is not so.
This thread, Black Lung, is obviously NOT about the majority of Muslims, but about those Muslims that abuse the Islam religion in order to start a so called Jihad against the western World and they mean business. Therefore all these references to the Bible and Christians are not that relevant. These references are all meant to try and rationalise away the real threat posed by these Islamist Muslims.
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My post was an attempt to rationalise away the threat posed by Muslims.
Originally posted by Black LungBlack Lung: " You make it sound like the only reason these people are some vehemently opposed to the west is because of their religion. This is not so."
My point, ivan, is that there is more to terrorism than a few obscure references in the Koran. Anyone can be a terrorist. I personally don't think that Islam is the common thread to terrorism, that is the point I am trying to make. You make it sound like the only reason these people are some vehemently opposed to the west is because of their religion. This is not so.
My post was an attempt to rationalise away the threat posed by Muslims.
This is of course true. I've always stated that this conflict, the so called Jihad, is not in the first place a religious conflict, although there are people and politicians who want to present it to us as being one.
What are the reasons in your opinion, besides religion, why these people are so vehemently opposed to the west ?
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The Jihad that you refer to is not a real Jihad. I know this for a fact. An official Jihad can only be called by top officials in Saudi Arabia, and that's not gonna happen for a while. There is, if i am not mistaken, an Official Jihad against the Catholic Church that is still in place.
BLACK LUNGS OFFICIAL REASON'S FOR GUERILLA WARFARE (TERRORISM)
1. Oppression
2. Poverty
3. A culture of violence
4. A general feeling of disillusionment with life, love and everything else
5. Religious Fanaticism
6. Greed
7. Profit in destabalising the area
8. A feeling that the West is robbing the Arabs of their Wealth
9. Propaganda by governments
10. Sitting in the sun too long
BLAH BLAH BLAH
There are many reasons why these people hate everything that the west stands for. Islam is simply a vehicle for venting their frustration.
Please Note: I do not condone these people's actions, before some angry american blasts me as being some muslim commie whatever.
I'm just saying we don't need to fuel the fires of an 'us vs them religious world war'.
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Qur'an's Sura 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."Well, I'm sure I agree with allah on at least 1 forbidden point - so i'm ok.
Originally posted by Black LungBlack Lung: "The Jihad that you refer to is not a real Jihad. I know this for a fact."
[b]The Jihad that you refer to is not a real Jihad. I know this for a fact. An official Jihad can only be called by top officials in Saudi Arabia, and that's not gonna happen for a while. There is, if i am not mistaken, an Official Jihad against the Catholic Church that is still in place.
The victims are very real. I know this for a fact.
Originally posted by Black Lung
[b]The Jihad that you refer to is not a real Jihad. I know this for a fact. An official Jihad can only be called by top officials in Saudi Arabia, and that's not gonna happen for a while. There is, if i am not mistaken, an Official Jihad against the Catholic Church that is still in place.
Do you have any information on:
Black Lung: "There is, if i am not mistaken, an Official Jihad against the Catholic Church that is still in place."
Never heard of this, must be a joke ....