Originally posted by StarValleyWyyes but wouldnt it take a leader to get all thouse people together to oppose leaders?😕
But the ULTIMATE power is always with the "little people". Like us. If everyone of us REFUSED TO FOLLOW LEADERS... and insisted on thinking for ourselves, the world would be a better place. No more dictators. No more cults. Only people... each respecting others who LEAD THEMSELVES.
NO MORE LEADERS! WE LEAD OURSELVES BY THOUGHT AND REASON!
"Sheep are the main cause of Follow The Evil." Famous old saying I just invented. 😉
Originally posted by UncleAdamNope. Everyone WHO LEADS THEMSELVES ignores any and all who want to lead. The ersatz leaders go away like a stain on a kitten!
yes but wouldnt it take a leader to get all thouse people together to oppose leaders?😕
All licked up and clean and feeling humble. Think... "What if they gave a press conference and nobody came." Nobody can lead if there are no followers. Everyone is "the one and only" leader.
Elected officials should be drawn from a hat and "forced" to serve a one year sentence. Couning up votes sent in by his/her constituents on any/all issues up for a vote. Then voting the way the people want. The second a "leader" calls a news conference or hires a PR firm... or a campaign manager... they should be shot!😠Just kidding. Tarred and Feathered would do just fine.😵
If for example... you were to ask me to "lead" the effort in RHP to push this idea. I would just say... "Go take a hike. Everyone knows what they want to believe."
If someone else tried to become a leader, pushing the idea, I would say... "Go take a hike. Everyone knows what they want to believe."
Leading yourself is dirt simple. No leaders except you. It is even a good way to raise kids. They become self-sufficient and learn to rely on themselves. What a joy that is. There is no better gift than to have your kids finally be able to tell you "I don't think so. This is what I will do and why."
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYou should talk to rwingett about anarchism. You might find that your views aren't so different after all! LOL
Nope. Everyone WHO LEADS THEMSELVES ignores any and all who want to lead. The ersatz leaders go away like a stain on a kitten!
All licked up and clean and feeling humble. Think... "What if they gave a press conference and nobody came." Nobody can lead if there are no followers. Everyone is "the one and only" leader.
Elected officials should be ...[text shortened]... your kids finally be able to tell you "I don't think so. This is what I will do and why."
One possible problem with your system, real power would be exercised by those who organised the lottery to decide government posts. How would you know they haven't rigged the election? 😛
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Originally posted by AcolyteI haven't thought that far ahead.😛 My preliminary idea would be that if you make "elected office" a "miserable duty" ... minimum wage, no benefits... etc., nobody would want it. Litterally "draft" some poor sucker each year to fill the jobs. Public office today means nothing but "power and money... with lifetime benefits." Take all that away.
How would you know they haven't rigged the election? 😛[/b]
As far as people cheating. Who knows? This is what all of the major money grubbers have been force feeding us for decades under the very accurate assumption that "Cheaters make better customers." They have no ability to accept the notion that "Nothing Is Free". After all, they get free stuff all the time by cheating. The new "Hummer H2" advertisement on american tv right now is a perfect example.
A Kids Box Car race. "First One Wins"... Using old rock music our protagonist 10 year old boy (with the help of a 10 year old babe... I KNOW! THAT'S HOW STUPID IT IS!) builds a big old "hummer" like thing. He can't win in a fair race so he "cuts off cross country" and wins. Just like real life... Right? Disney, AOL, Viacom... And VIRTUALLY ALL AD AGENCIES. They actively encourage cheating, rumor mongering and deception. Example: "Reality TV" or "The Real World" or "Wrestling" strike any bells? Makes the money grubbers profit margin go up every time the "moral quotient" of the society goes down.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeNope. It's easy. Always accept truth and make sure you don't deceive yourself. Then change. It is rather easy if you realize that you are not the ruler of the world and "Chimp Credits" mean nothing... except to chimps.
It's difficult to change the world, isn't it ?
It's even more difficult to change other human beings.
So we can force them or we simply deceive them or manipulate them.
The most difficult thing is to change yourself, it's almost impossible ... isn't it ?
It is only impossible or difficult when you have an ego maniachal tendancy, or have "pretty flower am i" disease. Normally healthy egos change with ease. Change offers no threat to well adjusted people.
As far as INDIVIDUALS... ONE-ON-ONE... "force them or deceive them"?... No. I would rather try to reason. Over and over if that is what it takes. That is why I use the forums but don't play chess. I like to express my opinion and win the day with reasonable argument.
War is quite different, but that is not on subject in this context.
Originally posted by StarValleyWySehr Geehrter Herr SternThalWarum,
No. I would rather try to reason. Over and over if that is what it takes. That is why I use the forums but don't play chess.
War is quite different, but that is not on subject in this context.[/b]
"War is quite different, but that is not on subject in this context."
Yes, I guess war comes into the picture when reasoning does not help much. I know you don't have any problem about the use of force, I mean of course only if it's absolutely necessary, but I wonder how that army is going to carry out any operations without a leader ... but that's not on subject here. All right.
I agree with you on the subject of " Excepting the truth. Always. And never deceive yourself." How do you know that you're not deceiving yourself. Now that's a huge problem for me ...
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Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat war? What army? If we all take charge of our lives and accept no leaders to do our thinking (and fighting) for us, guess what? No wars. No generals. No privates. No Army. No problem. Always take responsibility for your own thinking and your own fighting. They are too valuable and important to leave to others.
Sehr Geehrter Herr SternThalWarum,
"War is quite different, but that is not on subject in this context."
Yes, I guess war comes into the picture when reasoning does not help much. I know you don't have any problem about the use ...[text shortened]... eceiving yourself. Now that's a huge problem for me ...
How do you know if you are deceiving yourself is as easy as can be. If you don't apologize to someone at least once a day... you are REALLY deceiving yourself. If you do it ten times per day on average... you are probably 'ok'. If you say "That's my fault." and "I was wrong" on a daily basis... you are probably 'ok'. But it doesn't hurt to ask your closest family and friends or work associates whenever you have a doubt about self deception. Once they learn that you will not get angry with a truthful answer, they are more than happy to let you know. THEN YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND ADAPT TO WHAT THEY SAY, NOT ARGUE WITH THEM.
Originally posted by StarValleyWy
[b]What war? What army? If we all take charge of our lives and accept no leaders to do our thinking (and fighting) for us, guess what?
THEN YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND ADAPT TO WHAT THEY SAY, NOT ARGUE WITH THEM.
Ja SternthalWarum, Ich verstehe.
Verzeihen Sie mir bitte meine Dummheit.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeYou really should not try to do that. You are taking the "subject" from one paragraph, injecting it into the context of a wholly separate subject in another paragraph and treating your comment as though it has meaning. Not nice. Try to leave other peoples writing alone. Otherwise they will think you are a manipulator, and can't reason well. What you do with your writing is up to you. Never cut out parts of others writing to "serve your own purpose." Even if you think you are being "nice" or "cute" or somehow "proving your point". It is very offensive.
Study your post below if you have any questions. Compare your cut and paste BELOW to what I actually wrote. Thanks.
Originally posted by StarValleyWy
What war? What army? If we all take charge of our lives and accept no leaders to do our thinking (and fighting) for us, guess what?
THEN YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND ADAPT TO WHAT THEY SAY, NOT ARGUE WITH THEM.
Ja SternthalWarum, Ich verstehe.
Verzeihen Sie mir bitte meine Dummheit.
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Originally posted by StarValleyWyWell, I'm trying to understand you, but sometimes it just doesn't add up. That's why I'm confronting you with what I see as contradicting statements.
You really should not try to do that. You are taking the "subject" from one paragraph, injecting it into the context of a wholly separate subject in another paragraph and treating your comment as though it has meaning. Not nice. Try ...[text shortened]... lWarum, Ich verstehe.
Verzeihen Sie mir bitte meine Dummheit.
I hope that you're not angry with me.
Maybe I take your words too seriously ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeMY first paragraph was to do with "War". MY second was to do with "Self Deception". YOU DON'T HAVE A PARAGRAPH ON EITHER. I know you think it is clever to try and mix MY TWO PARAGRAPHS and turn one on the other to your own ADVANTAGE or purpose, but that is why you and I don't get along. It is not clever. It is rude. It is a logical mistake to do so. It is a sure sign that there is no use of conversing. YOU can't mix MY TWO IDEAS... If YOU can ask a question that will put YOUR THOUGHTS into EITHER CONTEXT, you should do so. That way i can answer you instead of seeing you as "manipulative" and "rude". It might be a language/culture thing. But to mix two ideas FROM ANOTHER PERSONS WRITING, FROM TWO DISTINCT PARAGRAPHS to fit your needs is just "BAD". Very low class.
Well, I'm trying to understand you, but sometimes it just doesn't add up. That's why I'm confronting you with what I see as contradicting statements.
I hope that you're not angry with me.
For example, you could have simply asked, "Don't you see a contradiction and/or conflict between the First and Second paragraph?" Then state the SPECIFIC contradiction you are refering to and why you think it is a contradiction.
Or you can just say "Bull s*** " and leave it at that. That is acceptable too. At least then I know your opinion. As it is, I have no idea if you agree or disagree. Poor communication leads to bad feelings.
If you can do that, we can converse. Instead of a fighting all the time.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyFighting is not what the doctor advocated. The good doctor recommended only orange juice in medium quantities to be taken intravenously.
MY first paragraph was to do with "War". MY second was to do with "Self Deception". YOU DON'T HAVE A PARAGRAPH ON EITHER. I know you think it is clever to try and mix MY TWO PARAGRAPHS and turn one on the other to your own ADVANTAGE or purpose, but that is why you and I don't get along. It is not clever. It is rude. It is a logical mistake to do s ...[text shortened]... ads to bad feelings.
If you can do that, we can converse. Instead of a fighting all the time.
Originally posted by StarValleyWy
MY first paragraph was to do with "War". MY second was to do with "Self Deception". YOU DON'T HAVE A PARAGRAPH ON EITHER. I know you think it is clever to try and mix MY TWO PARAGRAPHS and turn one on the other to your own ADVANTAGE or purpose, but that is why you and I don't get along. It is not clever. It is rude. It is a logical mistake to do s ...[text shortened]... ads to bad feelings.
If you can do that, we can converse. Instead of a fighting all the time.
All right, Starvalleywy. I apologise.
Maybe what you mean by "you don't need a leader" is what I see as undependent thinking, as trying to find the truth in an uncompromising way. I mean uncompromising regarding establishing the truth not being uncompromising towards people.