This was truly a tough call.
On the one hand, you've got A-Rod (48, 130, .321 with 124 Runs Scored) and Ortiz (47, 148, .300 with 119 Runs Scored).
A-Rod stole 21 bases in 27 attempts to Ortiz's 1 steal in his only attempt. Obviously, Ortiz was not signed for his base-stealing ability, but the numbers are what they are...
A-Rod plays at a gold-glove level at a fairly key defensive position, while Ortiz is a DH.
Ortiz plays in Fenway Park while A-Rod is a right-handed hitter who plays in Yankee Stadium.
The Yankees did win the division, albeit in a close race. That could have had a slight impact in the voting. And it certainly was not their pitching that won it...
Writers have historically been over-impressed with RBI totals, which would give a big edge to Ortiz, while players who score a lot of runs have been under rated in MVP voting...
But the Runs Scored totals for these players are vitrually even.
I think that the raw numbers themselves would point slightly to A-Rod as a regular season MVP, but it's as close as the actual vote was. It's hard to argue against either player (Ortiz has performed significantly better in post-season play, but that of course, is not considered here, as the voting is done at the end of the reglar season).
The one best argument I've heard for Ortiz is that he is a much better hitter in the "late innings of close games", which I think means from the 7th inning on and a margin of less than 4 runs, although I'm not positive about the exact definition of "close". So it's very possible that Ortiz did have an unusual number of huge, game reversing hits, while A-Rod perhaps did not...well, let's check it out...
The following links give their "situational stats". In terms of "runners in scoring position with 2 outs" , Ortiz was awesome (21 for 57 .368 avg. .507 on base percentage .719 slugging).... A-Rod hit .302 (26 for 86)... It appears that Ortiz did have better "clutch" stats, but you kind of have to dig a little to get to that stuff.
It may have ultimately come down to the fact that the writers don't like to vote for a DH as MVP unless the DH is clearly the dominant player in the league, but as long as a position player does basically the same things, they'll put the position player first and the DH second... I haven't checked the recent historical MVP votes to see if that theory holds up at all...
I wouldn't lose any sleep over either of these guys winning or not winning...I don't think either player could say they were screwed by the writers if the other guy won the award. They both had great years.
Ortiz - http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5909/situational
A-Rod http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5275/situational
Originally posted by TheBloopI think you missed one very important fact:
This was truly a tough call.
On the one hand, you've got A-Rod (48, 130, .321 with 124 Runs Scored) and Ortiz (47, 148, .300 with 119 Runs Scored).
A-Rod stole 21 bases in 27 attempts to Ortiz's 1 steal in his only attempt. Obviously, Ortiz was not signed for his base-stealing ability, but the numbers are what they are...
A-Rod plays at a gold- ...[text shortened]... mlbpa/players/5909/situational
A-Rod http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5275/situational
Many Ramirez was in the same team with Ortiz and got 4th place.
This means that writers from Boston got somehow divided and probably this helped Arod to get the MVP.
If Many had have a poor season then maybe Ortiz would have won the prize.
The problem is idiots who think someone needs to have a glove on to be most valuable. Ortiz was much more clutch than Payrod, and far more valuable.
When crappy fielders like Jason Giambi or a pitcher can get the MVP... why can't a DH? You take Ortiz away from the Sox would be a bigger problem than taking Arod away from the Yankees. Ortiz has about the most walk-off homeruns in Sox history, where Yankees would have still made the playoffs without Arod.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitI don't deny that Ortiz was extremely valuable to the Sox, but I don't necessarily agree that the Yanks would have made the playoffs without A-Rod.
The problem is idiots who think someone needs to have a glove on to be most valuable. Ortiz was much more clutch than Payrod, and far more valuable.
When crappy fielders like Jason Giambi or a pitcher can get the MVP... why can't a DH? You take Ortiz away from the Sox would be a bigger problem than taking Arod away from the Yankees. Ortiz has abo ...[text shortened]... ff homeruns in Sox history, where Yankees would have still made the playoffs without Arod.
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Originally posted by rbmorrisAre you thinking that Arod was as valuable to the Yanks as Ortiz was to the Sox? Cuz he wasn't. Ortiz numbers were more often in clutch situations, where Arod chocked.
I don't deny that Ortiz was extremely valuable to the Sox, but I don't necessarily agree that the Yanks would have made the playoffs without A-Rod.
The numbers are similar in the end, but Ortiz WON far more games for the sox than Arod did for the yanks.
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Originally posted by TheBloopGold gloves are the biggest joke of an award in the history of sports.especially after Bobby Abreu won one this year. As a huge phillies fan and someone who goes to many phillies games I can tell you he is lazy and not a good fielder at all. you will never, ever see him dive for a ball or climb the wall.
This was truly a tough call.
On the one hand, you've got A-Rod (48, 130, .321 with 124 Runs Scored) and Ortiz (47, 148, .300 with 119 Runs Scored).
A-Rod stole 21 bases in 27 attempts to Ortiz's 1 steal in his only attempt. Obviously, Ortiz was not signed for his base-stealing ability, but the numbers are what they are...
A-Rod plays at a gold- ...[text shortened]... mlbpa/players/5909/situational
A-Rod http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5275/situational
But on the topic, I think A-Rod deserves MVP. Baseball is the one sport that gives the award to the most deserving person, not the most deserving city or team
Originally posted by PhlabibitPeople make the mistake of thinking MVP goes to the person who was most valuable to that particular team, which is how it should be. They give it to the player with the best numbers, which often do not tell the whole story as in Ortiz's case
Are you thinking that Arod was as valuable to the Yanks as Ortiz was to the Sox? Cuz he wasn't. Ortiz numbers were more often in clutch situations, where Arod chocked.
The numbers are similar in the end, but Ortiz WON far more games for the sox than Arod did for the yanks.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitA-Rod is ceratinly more well-rounded than Ortiz. We all like to see home runs and clutch hits that win the game, but you can't discount the value of a good defense. A-Rod was chosen as the MVP because he excels on BOTH sides of the mound. You couldn't ask for a better hitter OR a better fielder. Yes, A-Rod had his ups and downs at the plate, but you can't deny that his overall stats were fantastic. Would I trade Ortiz at the plate for A-Rod at the plate AND in the infield? No way. I also think that A-Rod brings more to the team from a leadership perspective. His drive, his competitive nature and his professionalism surely helped bring everyone's game to the next level.
Are you thinking that Arod was as valuable to the Yanks as Ortiz was to the Sox? Cuz he wasn't. Ortiz numbers were more often in clutch situations, where Arod chocked.
The numbers are similar in the end, but Ortiz WON far more games for the sox than Arod did for the yanks.
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Originally posted by rbmorrisIt was called MVP, not the most well rounded award. The voters got this wrong. Ortiz was much more valuable to the Sox than Arod was to Yankees.
A-Rod is ceratinly more well-rounded than Ortiz. We all like to see home runs and clutch hits that win the game, but you can't discount the value of a good defense. A-Rod was chosen as the MVP because he excels on BOTH sides of the mound. You couldn't ask for a better hitter OR a better fielder. Yes, A-Rod had his ups and downs at the plate, but you c ...[text shortened]... mpetitive nature and his professionalism surely helped bring everyone's game to the next level.
Also, Arod is not very valuable as a leader. Most fans don't even consider him a real yankee yet. Not sure where you got that garbage from.. and why the heck did they hide the best shortstop in MLB at third base?
Gah@!
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Originally posted by PhlabibitOk, here's a hypothetical scenario...
It was called MVP, not the most well rounded award. The voters got this wrong. Ortiz was much more valuable to the Sox than Arod was to Yankees.
Also, Arod is not very valuable as a leader. Most fans don't even consider him a real yankee yet. Not sure where you got that garbage from.. and why the heck did they hide the best shortstop in MLB at third base?
Gah@!
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Let's say that a mediocre team (we'll call our hypothetical team the Rosy Stockings) makes it to the playoffs and gets knocked out in the first round. Let's say the Rosy Stockings have a "star" player that they depended on all year long. This star player wasn't the best in the league, but he was extremely valuable to the Rosy Stockings. On top of that, let's say that he wasn't much of a fielder at all, but a very good batter--in other words, he'd mastered HALF of the game. In fact, he was such a good batter that the Rosy Stockings atribute many of their wins to his clutch hitting. He was a great hitter, but still his batting average wasn't the best in the league, his home runs weren't the highest...etc. His stats were great, but clearly not the best...AND once again, this player wasn't much of a fielder. Would you call this player: The Most Valuable Player in Major League Baseball?
Hmmmm...I wouldn't. I'd call him a great player...hell, I'd even buy him a beer, but I wouldn't give him an MVP trophy.
Originally posted by rbmorrisI don't recall Arod's team making it past the first round...
Ok, here's a hypothetical scenario...
Let's say that a mediocre team (we'll call our hypothetical team the Rosy Stockings) makes it to the playoffs and gets knocked out in the first round. Let's say the Rosy Stockings have a "star" player that they depended on all year long. This star player wasn't the best in the league, but he was extremely va ...[text shortened]... all him a great player...hell, I'd even buy him a beer, but I wouldn't give him an MVP trophy.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitAll things considered, I'd say it was a pretty piss poor finish for both teams. I really have nothing against the Red Sox, it's their fans that annoy me. Living next to Fenway for 6 years will do that to you.
I don't recall Arod's team making it past the first round...
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