Personal pronouns

Probably the latter.

Me ripe in age Gov'na.
Ya can't fault me for that see?

@torunn said
What crap is it you are never gonna get the hang of?

In the Indonesian language, which is a lingua franca based on a much older language called Melayu [from which Malaysia gets its name], there is a whole load of interpersonal stuff to factor into how one decides to say "you".

There is "anda", "kamu", "kau", "pak, bapak", "bu, ibu", "lu", "mas", "mbak", "saudara", "engkau", "kak, kakak", "dik, adik", "eyang", "kalian", "anda sekalian", "bapak ibu sekalian", "[insert the person's name here]".

And then there is all manner of regional dialect versions ["mbak" and "mas" above are of Javanese origin, for example], and some people, when talking to people of the foreign persuasion, like me, even use the word "you". They just insert it awkwardly into sentences where they want to use an Indonesian word - an indication of some tiny predicament in their mind as to how to process your status relative to them.

There simply is no 'dilemma' like this in English. The necessary vocabulary is just not available!

In Indonesian, for a foreigner, it requires a whole load of acculturalization and internalization regarding hierarchy, relationship, formality etc. [assuming one wants to get it right] before the appropriate word is selected. Naturally, this happens to people here while they are still very young.

Having said that, one can simply use "anda" - especially if you are a foreigner - and a lot of the psychology is bypassed although it is pointedly neutral/distant, which might not be your intention.

If I have a 55-year-old workman in the house fixing something, I can establish a tone and a perceived relationship with him as a result of selecting "anda" [neutral], "mas" [informal, warm], or "pak" [respectful].

If I call a 55-year-old man "mas" he will call me "mas" back. But he might have preferred me to have used "pak" or "bapak". If I use "anda" he will assume it's just the best I can do as a non-native speaker of Indonesian.

A 40-year-old man/woman would not dare address me as "mas" without some signal from me in advance and if they did, I might be forgiven for concluding they have some truculent intent with their deliberate overfamiliarity.

And so it goes. It's interesting. I am aware of it but I don't worry about it.

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@fmf said
In the Indonesian language, which is a lingua franca based on a much older language called Melayu [from which Malaysia gets its name], there is a whole load of interpersonal stuff to factor into how one decides to say "you".

There is "anda", "kamu", "kau", "pak, bapak", "bu, ibu", "lu", "mas", "mbak", "saudara", "engkau", "kak, kakak", "dik, adik", "eyang", "kalian", "anda se ...[text shortened]... overfamiliarity.

And so it goes. It's interesting. I am aware of it but I don't worry about it.

@lipareeno said
I don't toe the line.

@lipareeno said
I don't get what anyone is saying.

I planted some dill weed today.
Did you know wild rabbits prefer dill weed over fruits and vegetables?
I have a wild pet rabbit who comes by for bread. He loves the bread. Wait till he/she sees that dill weed sprouting.

@fmf said
Depending on your perspective, one could say it's got something to do with the "crap" that Jordan Peterson refused to get the hang of.

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@fmf said
In the Indonesian language, which is a lingua franca based on a much older language called Melayu [from which Malaysia gets its name], there is a whole load of interpersonal stuff to factor into how one decides to say "you".

There is "anda", "kamu", "kau", "pak, bapak", "bu, ibu", "lu", "mas", "mbak", "saudara", "engkau", "kak, kakak", "dik, adik", "eyang", "kalian", "anda se ...[text shortened]... overfamiliarity.

And so it goes. It's interesting. I am aware of it but I don't worry about it.

In the interest of multicultural fluency, English needs a lot of simplification. Instead of a variety of pronouns which mean "this person", could we not have a single pronoun such as "ou"? (Proposed by a Scottish economist in 1792, which shows how reluctant humans are to do anything that might make life simpler.)

@kevin-eleven said
Jordan Peterson couldn't fight his way out of his own crap with a Roto-Rooter.

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