Originally posted by buffalobillI've got to include historians views. Those views i posted previously are those of a historian. The spelling is my fault, I tend to make mistakes when I type fast.
Proofread this more carefully: "domimate powering"?
I also don't like your argument. This is about WWII, not the consequences and the Cold War.
Write it in your own words.
I'm not aiming to cover the Cold War merely why Russia suceeded over Nazi Germany. I agree the end part of the pasted quote is irrelevant to the question.
Originally posted by gambit3Because he was their leader.. plus to not do so would have severe consequences..like being disappeared!
The numbers as I know them. Twenty pluss million casualties of World War Two. Casualties of stalin ? Given at over fourty million. Why would the Russian People want to fight for stalin?
Originally posted by Silver SlayerI don't know about the casualty figures but probably less. Patriotism, defending Mother Russia and the certain knowledge you would be shot otherwise, counted. Stalin was not a nice guy. In fact, he was evil, up there with Hitler and may have been worse - depending on your definitions.
Because he was their leader.. plus to not do so would have severe consequences..like being disappeared!
Originally posted by gambit3Compare it to the millions of Americans who hate GW. Although they hate GW, if any country invaded the US, not including the 11,000,000 ilegal aliens who have already invaded and broken our sovreign laws, then people would pull together to defend the "Mother land". At least I hope Americans would do that. I'm sure there will be protests aginst fighting an invader at Berkeley, San Francisco, and other stupidly-liberal chit hole cities in the US...mostly on the "left coast"....
The numbers as I know them. Twenty pluss million casualties of World War Two. Casualties of stalin ? Given at over fourty million. Why would the Russian People want to fight for stalin?
Originally posted by chancremechanicHave you got the pointy hat yet? This has nothing to do with the original post.
Compare it to the millions of Americans who hate GW. Although they hate GW, if any country invaded the US, not including the 11,000,000 ilegal aliens who have already invaded and broken our sovreign laws, then people would pull together to defend the "Mother land". At least I hope Americans would do that. I'm sure there will be protests aginst fig ...[text shortened]... sco, and other stupidly-liberal chit hole cities in the US...mostly on the "left coast"....
There are two pre-war decisions made by the Soviets which contributed greatly to their eventual victory:
1) The Soviets went on a large railroad building spree in the 20's and 30's, but refused to design their railroads as the same gauge (distance between the rails) as the rest of Europe. This meant that trains made in other countries wouldn't work on the Soviet railways. Contrary to popular belief, most supplies in WWII were transported by rail. As the Germans advanced into the Soviet Union, they had to either change the rail gauge (a time consuming, labor intensive project) or use captured Soviet trains. Neither proved satisfactory, so the supply problems of the German army, particulary in the critical battle in front of Moscow in December 1941, proved severe primarily for this reason;
2) The Soviets designed many of their factories in the West to be able to be taken down and transported East to Siberia. While other countries that lost their industrial areas were quickly crippled. the Soviets were able to continually out produce the Germans in war materials throughout the war even though their pre-war main industrial centers were in Nazi hands.
Stalin was quite active in both these decisions and showed a level of understanding of strategic thought that others lacked. The Soviets were taken by surprise by the German attack in late June 1941; they had thought the Nazis would not attack so late in the season. The German seizure of Yugoslavia and Greece following the ouster of a pro-Nazi government in Yugoslavia cost them 6 critical weeks and it is a hot topic of historical debate whether that delay was A) Militarily necessary; B) Cost them taking Moscow; and C) Whether taking Moscow would have effectively won the war. I'm of the opinions: Yes, maybe, No.
Originally posted by no1marauderThanks, thats interesting and relevant!
There are two pre-war decisions made by the Soviets which contributed greatly to their eventual victory:
1) The Soviets went on a large railroad building spree in the 20's and 30's, but refused to design their railroads as the same gauge (distance between the rails) as the rest of Europe. This meant that trains made in other countries wouldn't ...[text shortened]... ether taking Moscow would have effectively won the war. I'm of the opinions: Yes, maybe, No.
Originally posted by EdwardipovIt never was necessary. Hitler had a peace pact with Russia and could have instead finished off Egypt and the Middle East. This would surely have solved his oil problmes, plus he would have had trade arrangements with Russia. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
ah, but the clue as to why it was necessary for hitler to invade russia is in silver slayer's original question...
Originally posted by buffalobillThat was the proposal of some in the German navy. Whether it could have succeeded or not is debateable given the German supply problems in North Africa caused by the British fleet in the Med and the air base at Malta. Perhaps if the Turks had joined in and given the Nazi armies passage in that direction. It certainly seems true, though, that Stalin was trying to avoid war with the Germans at virtually any cost in 1941.
It never was necessary. Hitler had a peace pact with Russia and could have instead finished off Egypt and the Middle East. This would surely have solved his oil problmes, plus he would have had trade arrangements with Russia. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by no1marauderIf Hitler had put 1/3 the resources into North Africa that he did into Russia, it would have been over in weeks. Assuming they could have been supplied.
That was the proposal of some in the German navy. Whether it could have succeeded or not is debateable given the German supply problems in North Africa caused by the British fleet in the Med and the air base at Malta. Perhaps if the Turks had joined in and given the Nazi armies passage in that direction. It certainly seems true, though, that Stalin was trying to avoid war with the Germans at virtually any cost in 1941.
Originally posted by no1marauderA couple of questions for you:
There are two pre-war decisions made by the Soviets which contributed greatly to their eventual victory:
1) The Soviets went on a large railroad building spree in the 20's and 30's, but refused to design their railroads as the same gauge (distance between the rails) as the rest of Europe. This meant that trains made in other countries wouldn't ...[text shortened]... ether taking Moscow would have effectively won the war. I'm of the opinions: Yes, maybe, No.
Why didn't the Germans simply build some trains that conformed to the Soviet rail gauge? That seems like a simpler solution than changing all the rails. Surely they should have anticipated this problem and planned accordingly.
Why do you feel the attack on Yugoslavia was militarily necessary?
Originally posted by buffalobillI'm curious; how do you think that the Germans could have placed over a million men in North Africa (Operation Barbarosa had about 3.5 million men under arms)? You think that the Germans could have overrun the Middle East from Libya (the operation you suggested in your earlier post) in "weeks"??
If Hitler had put 1/3 the resources into North Africa that he did into Russia, it would have been over in weeks. Assuming they could have been supplied.
Originally posted by no1marauderAhem. No other countries' production cababilities were crippled to any long-term effect, they were quickly blitzkrieged, starting with Poland.
[b]
2) The Soviets designed many of their factories in the West to be able to be taken down and transported East to Siberia. While other countries that lost their industrial areas were quickly crippled. the Soviets were able to continually out produce the Germans in war materials throughout the war even though their pre-war main industrial centers were in Nazi hands.
/b]