Originally posted by ChessJesterI haven't seen any here in Toronto but I have heard that the bill is facing a lot of criticism. I can't see the youtube video here at work, can you explain why this bill is a bad one?
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=GpfCJvCdNgs
Rallies have been happening all over the country... is anyone listening?
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No.
C-51 just makes sure "natural" products go through the same testing regime as man-made products to make sure they don't cause damage and actually help people instead of being inert like alot of the "natural" products are.
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you. There have been so many rip-off "natural" products that it forced the government to do something about it. Industry self regulation didn't work so what did they expect?
Now it'll be regulated because some of the players took advantage of there not being regulations.
I don't have any sympathy.
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Originally posted by darvlayhttp://www.thestar.com/article/428090
I haven't seen any here in Toronto but I have heard that the bill is facing a lot of criticism. I can't see the youtube video here at work, can you explain why this bill is a bad one?
This states some of the reasons why the natural product industry think this is not good for them.
"The Food and Drugs Act regulates the production, transport and sale of food, drugs, contraceptive devices and cosmetics, with a focus on ensuring products are safe, ingredients are disclosed and there are no false or exaggerated health claims on the product label.
Among proposed changes in Bill C-51 are greater penalties for rule-breakers, power for the health minister to recall unsafe drug products, and improved safety of all products.
But critics – who have been carefully monitoring the progress of the bill, which is awaiting second reading – fear changes to the act will restrict access to natural health products, delay their approval and give the health ministry unprecedented powers of enforcement.
Critics fear the ministry would be able to suspend or cancel clinical trials, disclose and demand confidential information, and impose costly fines for minor infractions – with no mention of an appeal process after such decisions. Maximum fines for an indictable offence under the act could increase from $5,000 to as much as $5 million. "
Bunch of whiners if you ask me.
Originally posted by uzlessYou missed the best quote from that article!
http://www.thestar.com/article/428090
This states some of the reasons why the natural product industry think this is not good for them.
"The Food and Drugs Act regulates the production, transport and sale of food, drugs, contraceptive devices and cosmetics, with a focus on ensuring products are safe, ingredients are disclosed and there are no false ...[text shortened]... ct could increase from $5,000 to as much as $5 million. "
Bunch of whiners if you ask me.
"Basically, this is unbelievable granting of police state powers to essentially untrained field staff, inspectors at Health Canada, who are making life-and-death decisions based on misguided policy," said Peter Helgason, vice-president of political affairs for the Natural Health Products Protection Association. "What I don't understand is, what problem are they trying to fix with this?"
Apparently, storm troopers will be gunning down naturopaths in the streets for no apparent reason once this bill gets approved. At least cool heads are prevailing. 😞
Originally posted by PBE6That is another problem with this bill.
You missed the best quote from that article!
"Basically, this is unbelievable granting of police state powers to essentially untrained field staff, inspectors at Health Canada, who are making life-and-death decisions based on misguided policy," said Peter Helgason, vice-president of political affairs for the Natural Health Products Protection Association. "W ...[text shortened]... or no apparent reason once this bill gets approved. At least cool heads are prevailing. 😞
Here is the website of the people who are opposing it:
http://www.stopc51.com
From that website:
Bill C-51 Will:
Allow Government agents to:
-Enter private property without a warrant Section 23 (4)
-Confiscate your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 a
-Dispose of your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 c
-Seize your bank accounts without a warrant Section 23 (2) (d)
-Charge you for shipping and storage of your property Section 23.3a-b
-Store your property Indefinitely without paying you for damages Section 23 (2) (d)
-Levy fines of up to $5,000,000.00 / 2 years in jail per offence. Section 31.1
Introduce new legislation that will:
-Allow laws to be created in Canada, behind closed doors, with the assistance of foreign governments, industrial and trade organizations Section 30.7
-Allow "Crack house style" of enforcement on natural health providers Section 23.1
-Allow enforcement to be considered on more than 70% of Canadians who use NHP's Health Canada Reference
-Allow the minister, based on opinion, to shut down research without any scientific reason or evidence of risk or harm Section 18.5
-Allow the minister, based on opinion, to allow or disallow market authorizations for Natural Health Products Section 18.7 (1)
Originally posted by uzless"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
No.
C-51 just makes sure "natural" products go through the same testing regime as man-made products to make sure they don't cause damage and actually help people instead of being inert like alot of the "natural" products are.
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you. There have been so many rip-off "natural" products that it for ...[text shortened]... players took advantage of there not being regulations.
I don't have any sympathy.
-William Pitt
Apparently, they don't think that normal people have the ability to discern which products work and which ones don't.
As if. I mean, we had the ability to create a legal analysis of the bill.
This bill was funded by big pharmaceutical companies.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't trust the vast majority of pharmaceuticals because they don't require independent scientific studies.
This is an attempt to corner the market since more and more people are seeing the benefits of natural medicines and are realizing they don't have to pay for expensive pharmaceuticals which often have many adverse reactions and side-effects.
Having the ability to grow my own herbs for my own uses is an exercise of my liberty! It should not be a criminal act!
Originally posted by ChessJesterYou are so right. Large, wealthy, multinational companies seem to manipulate our governments so easily these days. The Golden Rule has become for them, "He who has the most gold rules". This is the definition of FASCISM.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-William Pitt
Apparently, they don't think that normal people have the ability to discern which products work and which ones don't.
As if. I mean, we had the ability to create a legal analysis of the bill.
This bill was f ...[text shortened]... own herbs for my own uses is an exercise of my liberty! It should not be a criminal act!
Originally posted by ChessJesterWrong.
That is another problem with this bill.
Here is the website of the people who are opposing it:
http://www.stopc51.com
From that website:
Bill C-51 Will:
Allow Government agents to:
-Enter private property without a warrant Section 23 (4)
-Confiscate your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 a
-Dispose of your prope ...[text shortened]... ion, to allow or disallow market authorizations for Natural Health Products Section 18.7 (1)
If you care to read the Bill, you will find that:
(a) a warrant is still required to search the property, however it can be issued by telephone;
(b) probably cause is required to confiscate, dispose of, etc.. the property, not some sort of aimless "discretion";
(c) the storage of your property is for "as long as necessary" - if no necessity can be proven, they have to give it back;
(d) the fines and jail time listed are maximums, not minimums;
(e) the new laws may be included by approval of a new regulation by reference in said regulation - they are not automatically made law "behind closed doors"
(f) warrants are required - since when is entering premises with a warrant "crack house style" enforcement?;
(g) there is no reference to 70% of a small group of Canadians in this Bill;
(h) the Minister can shut down a clinical trial if the clinicians contravened the Act or the shut down is required to prevent injury to a clinical patient;
(i) the Bill allows the Minister to [b]allow[/i] market authorizations subject to the regulations, not based on an uninformed opinion.
You are deliberately misinforming people about this act. Knock if off, knucklehead. ðŸ˜
Originally posted by ChessJesterThese are basically the same powers our environmental inspectors have so this isn't something new.
That is another problem with this bill.
Here is the website of the people who are opposing it:
http://www.stopc51.com
From that website:
Bill C-51 Will:
Allow Government agents to:
-Enter private property without a warrant Section 23 (4)
-Confiscate your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 a
-Dispose of your prope ...[text shortened]... 3 (2) (d)
-Levy fines of up to $5,000,000.00 / 2 years in jail per offence. Section 31.1
(1)
You make it out like inpsectors are going to be banging down your door and tying you to your couch while they rip apart your home. Give me a break.
Come back to reality.
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Originally posted by ChessJesterApparently, they don't think that normal people have the ability to discern which products work and which ones don't.
"
Apparently, they don't think that normal people have the ability to discern which products work and which ones don't.
As if. I mean, we had the ability to create a legal analysis of the bill.
This bill was funded by big pharmaceutical companies.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't trust the vast majority of pharmaceuticals because the own herbs for my own uses is an exercise of my liberty! It should not be a criminal act!
Correct! Consumers are buying millions of dollars worth of useless products because they think they work when in fact health canada studied them and they don't work. People as a whole cannot discern which products work and which ones don't. It's been proven and is the reason why this bill was created
As if. I mean, we had the ability to create a legal analysis of the bill.
This bill was funded by big pharmaceutical companies.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't trust the vast majority of pharmaceuticals because they don't require independent scientific studies.
come back from paranoid land. the vast majority of pharmaceuticals work. All the side effects are listed. it's up to a consumer to decide whether or not they want to take them
This is an attempt to corner the market since more and more people are seeing the benefits of natural medicines and are realizing they don't have to pay for expensive pharmaceuticals which often have many adverse reactions and side-effects.
no it's not. read the newspaper from a few years ago. It was filled every week with articles about so-called mircale natural products that claimed to do everything under the sun but in fact, were proven by health canada to be useless.
Having the ability to grow my own herbs for my own uses is an exercise of my liberty! It should not be a criminal act
NO ONE IS GOING TO BUST DOWN YOUR HOME AND RAID YOUR GARDEN!!!!!!!! quit the hyperbole ffs.