does anyone know whether it has been determined that christ was really not born dec25?
i know jehovahs say it was sometime in oct or nov, and i have heard similar things from time to time.
anyone know?
((((i should add, with heavy parentheses, here that i am not trying to change the date we do all this stuff, because i don't anyway since i don't like buying anyone presents and haven't for years - hurray for scrooge!!))))
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by Feivelits more a reason for mid winter ceremony
Nobody can give the birthdate with any certainty (Ranges have been proposed. Best I have heard narrows the date to two that differ by six months) but there are almost no clergy that defend the Dec 25th date.
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
every culture has reasons for these.
Originally posted by pradtfXmas is the successor of another feast: the birth of Mithras. Mithras was a originally a Persian God, he was representing the invincible Sun. It was said that he was born in cave when the sun started rising again.
does anyone know whether it has been determined that christ was really not born dec25?
i know jehovahs say it was sometime in oct or nov, and i have heard similar things from time to time.
anyone know?
((((i should add, with heavy parentheses, here that i am not trying to change the date we do all this stuff, because i don't anyway since i don't like b ...[text shortened]... ying anyone presents and haven't for years - hurray for scrooge!!))))
in friendship,
prad
In the year 274AD, solstice fell on 25th December, and Roman Emperor Aurelian proclaimed the date as "Natalis Solis Invicti," the festival of the birth of the invincible sun. In 320 AD, Pope Julius I specified the 25th of December as the official date of the birth of Jesus Christ. In 325AD, Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor, introduced Christmas as an immovable feast on 25 December. In 354AD, Bishop Liberius of Rome officially ordered his members to celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December.
In some parts of the Roman Empire (mostly the Eastern parts), solstice was celebrated on 6 January, the last festival day for those who started solstice on 25 December. (Saturnalia was held over 12 days.) The Orthodox Churches of Eastern Europe and Russia celebrate Christmas on 6 January.
Christ was certainly not born in December, probably March. And also not in the year Zero, but 6 years later. ( So for people who like millennium festivals: in 2006 there is a new opportunity)
Whatever you believe: Happy X-mas.
Fjord.
My understanding of the "calendar" is that it is a very contrived idea. which day is which has very little meaning.
Its a bit like day-light-saving versus no daylight-saving. So long as the people agree on "5 o clock today" then thats all it is an agreement on "5 o clock today". how that relates to "5 oclock two weeks ago before daylight saving" is anyone's guess. It can be interpreted as you wish.
The calendar has been "day light saved" many many times back and forth. Days added in and taken out to suit all sorts of reasonings and demands. And done differently in different countries.
I feel March would be most appropriate. Can't give you any facts but it just feels right.
A group of people called the essenes (which Jesus was a part of) in my readings never mentioned a specific date.
As to most of society we live in alot of superstitions and blind faith.
Big G.
Originally posted by pradtfAnd there is no santa clause. SSSShhhhhhh!!!!😲
does anyone know whether it has been determined that christ was really not born dec25?
i know jehovahs say it was sometime in oct or nov, and i have heard similar things from time to time.
anyone know?
((((i should add, with heavy parentheses, here that i am not trying to change the date we do all this stuff, because i don't anyway since i don't like b ...[text shortened]... ying anyone presents and haven't for years - hurray for scrooge!!))))
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by rapalla7well actually there is, i seem to recall.
And there is no santa clause. SSSShhhhhhh!!!!😲
the santa clause is a statement in a very technical legal document that deals with the ramifications of anyone who wilfully or accidentally manages to use their own physical person to obstruct any outlet for fume evacuations that are necessary for the functioning of indoor fires at this particular time of year. this clause was necessary to protect both the individual caught in such an outlet as well as the inhabitants of the particular house or dwelling who may be harmed as a result of the backflow of fumes resulting from such an occurence.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by kingofthe303i heard a story that santa claus was derived by the dutch from st nicolas.
There are plenty of reasons to believe that such a character once existed, although not as currently portrayed in Western cultures as a big fat man in a bright red coat. Coca-cola has a lot to answer for.
Originally posted by flexmoreThat is right. The Dutch celebrate Sinterklaas (St Nicolas) at the 6th of December. It is a celebration in which children play the main role, although adults use the feast to send each other small presents with long poems and funny surprises.
i heard a story that santa claus was derived by the dutch from st nicolas.
Dutch immigrants brought it to New York (New Amsterdam). The following link gives a interesting explanation of the relation between Sinterkkaas and Santa Claus:
http://www.thehollandring.com/truestory.htm.
It makes December a busy month for the Dutches.. By the end of November Sinterklaas arrives by boat in Holland and gallops 3 weeks on a white horse at night over the roofs throwing parcels through the chimneys, assisted by his helpers (black peters).
After that we get ready for the X-mas celebration. This was a celebration without presents. But for commercial reasons this has changed in recent times.