Why is religion such a sensitive topic anyway?
This question was posed in another thread, and I think the answer is worth some examination.
As far as I can see, we all argue about religion because regardless of what we believe in, we have an absolute belief that ours is the one true belief. We all believe that anyone who does not think as we do is not only wrong, but committing a sin and condemning himself or herself to eternal damnation.
This applies not only to christians, moslems, hindus, jews and the others, but to each of the multitude of subdivisions within those religions. Catholics, baptists, jehovah's witnesses, sunnis, shiites, or whatever, all believe their own flavour of their religion is the only true one.
Even atheists are guilty of this, as they believe that all followers of religion and believers in a supreme being are ultimately misguided or foolish. So many of us follow the forms taught to us by our parents, preachers and school teachers without ever questioning what we personally believe.
Why do christians, jews and moslems all hate each other so much? Of course, I don't mean on a personal level here; individuals are most often able to put their religious beliefs on a back burner when it brings them into conflict with friends or loved ones. Cultures, countries and religious sects as a whole are a different matter though. After all the bible, the torah and the koran all share several books. They all preach the word of the same god. Surely god's word should be more important than mortal man's interpretation of it? Apparently not. This, I believe, is where the problem lies. Over the millennia since these books were written, mankind has placed more importance in his own interpretation, his own word, than the word originally presented in the holy scriptures. The word of god has been superceded by the word of man.
Now of course, many of you are going to disagree with my opinion. That's kind of the whole point. If you have an opinion, then express it rationally and politely. If we can all learn a little tolerance, myself included, then maybe, just maybe we can start to make the world, or at least the Internet, or even just RHP a better place to be and exchange our thoughts.
Originally posted by martin williams
Why is religion such a sensitive topic anyway?
This question was posed in another thread, and I think the answer is worth some examination.
As far as I can see, we all argue about religion because regardless of what we believe in, we have an absolute belief that ours is the one true belief. We all believe that anyone who does not think as we d ...[text shortened]... orld, or at least the Internet, or even just RHP a better place to be and exchange our thoughts.
"Why do christians, jews and moslems all hate each other so much?"
I don't think this is true.
The most intolerant reactions I ever received about my religion I have received here on RHP from (ex) Freethinkers. Sad to say, but it is true.
Originally posted by ivanhoeCould that be because Muslim fundamentalists and Hassidic Jews aren't in the habit of playing online chess at RHP?
"Why do christians, jews and moslems all hate each other so much?"
I don't think this is true.
The most intolerant reactions I ever received about my religion I have received here on RHP from (ex) Freethinkers. Sad to say, but it is true.
Originally posted by martin williams
I agree that most of the time, most people are fine.
However, move the conversation onto religion and off go the fireworks.
Few people of different faiths can simply agree to disagree.
What irritates me most in such discussions about the religions is that the "religions" of deïsm, agnosticism and atheism are supposed to be tolerant. My experiences however in debates are just the opposite. The ones who are the most intolerant are these people. Maybe they are afraid of religious people. Maybe they are afraid that religion will impose "their morals" upon them.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYes, we are very afraid that religious people are trying to impose their theology on us. Christianity is an evangelical religion. It is their stated mission to "spread the word". That is why we defend our rights so vigorously, and why we are occasionally perceived of as sounding shrill.
What irritates me most in such discussions about the religions is that the "religions" of deïsm, agnosticism and atheism are supposed to be tolerant. My experiences however in debates are just the opposite. The ones who are the most intolerant are these people. Maybe they are afraid of religious people. Maybe they are afraid that religion will impose "their morals" upon them.
Originally posted by rwingett
Yes, we are very afraid that religious people are trying to impose their theology on us. Christianity is an evangelical religion. It is their stated mission to "spread the word". That is why we defend our rights so vigorously, and why we are occasionally perceived of as sounding shrill.
What rights are you afraid of loosing ? What else are you afraid of Chistians might do ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeI can't speak for any other atheists,but,sadly the few that I knew personally,were all card carrying followers of that lunatic Madeline Murray O'Hare. My decision to become an atheist was not a spur of the moment thing-it was made after several years of being wised up to the fact that most organized religions don't care a damn about the spiritual,mental,or physical welfare of their congregates. All these control freaks care about is the total suppression of the most basic rights of all people-the rights of freedom of choice, the right to self-determination,the right to believe,or not believe,without fear of reprisal. All these rights are poison to the fanatics of the religious right,who insist on having nothing but brainless,spineless,unquestioning,uncomplaining, sheep for members. I make it a point of never trying to force my atheism on anyone. I expect the same courtesy in return-have whatever beliefs you like,but do not force those beliefs on others not of your faith.And get this conceit that you have some kind of moral right to force your beliefs on others out of your systems,you do not!
What irritates me most in such discussions about the religions is that the "religions" of deïsm, agnosticism and atheism are supposed to be tolerant. My experiences however in debates are just the opposite. The ones who are the most intolerant are these people. Maybe they are afraid of religious people. Maybe they are afraid that religion will impose "their morals" upon them.
Why argue anything if you don't want to change somebody ele's opinion (or if you are a very open mindeded person, perhaps your own opinion. Rare though. Very rare).
Any argument is 'evangelical' as it were (without the God bits, which granted, is an awful lot of it, but if you don't get the drift...)
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe fear of having people's thoughts unduly influenced, by force or by persuasion, is not unique to Freethinkers or to religious matters. For example, many American parents fear that their children will succumb to liberal or communist politics (I know my Dad had a similar fear of my turning into a 'Tory' or Conservative), and many religious people feel that they must constantly guard themselves against the decadence and temptations of modern society. One of my worries is that I don't take a sufficiently careful view of what I experience, and may be unwittingly adopting undesirable prejudices and superstitions.
What rights are you afraid of loosing ? What else are you afraid of Chistians might do ?
Originally posted by martin williamsAtheism is not a religion. There are many types of atheists, and there are many ways of arriving at an atheistic prespective. We don't have religious texts, and we don't have churches. I have yet to meet another atheist who shares most of my beliefs. It's very hard to be bound together by a lack of belief, except by the need to be understood and stop discrimination against us.
Even atheists are guilty of this, as they believe that all followers of religion and believers in a supreme being are ultimately misguided or foolish.
I have been atheist for over 20 years, had a Christian upbringing, and have difficulty with the idea that religious people are "misguided or foolish." I know hundreds of religious people whom I respect (Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, other). I can respect most parts of their intellects, and their motivations. I find many of their beliefs difficult to believe, but I know that these beliefs help guide and comfort them. I try to find ways to work around the parts I disagree with when possible (when they are not important).
I have believed for some time that people have innate "religious" needs. I have recently found two books that discuss this topic, both interesting:
1) The "God" part of the Brain, by Matthew Alper
Discusses the possibility that humans have instincts to (a) develop beliefs in spirituality and to (2) build religions.
2) Why God won't go Away, by Newberg and D'Aquili
Just started this one -- it is based on neuro-science and an attempt to figure out which parts of the brain are active during religious practices, and what role these parts of brain play in religious experiences.
I also think that many religious people would find these interesting and inoffensive, as I think both are honest investigations.
If their premises are correct, religous people have this instinct stronger than I do, or I have found a ways to subdue it. (I do not mean to imply a value judgement by this statement.)
Originally posted by rwingettI agree with rwingett here. And I think there are many examples of religion in the wrong places. If you have difficulty seeing this point, please start replacing any word that refers to God or anything similar with "Zeus," and you will quickly understand. For example, our President saying "Zeus bless America," or saying a prayer to Zeus at the beginning of a public meeting, or having a stone monument at a courthouse with Zeus's commandments carved into it. There are, of course, many more examples. These are all examples of religion being placed in a public forum, with public time, and often money.
Yes, we are very afraid that religious people are trying to impose their theology on us.
I find all this at best a waste of time and money, and in any case offensive, coersive, and wrong. remove these from the context of government (the public sector), and I have no problem with them.
Originally posted by martin williamsI think this a hot topic.
Why is religion such a sensitive topic anyway?
This question was posed in another thread, and I think the answer is worth some examination.
As far as I can see, we all argue about religion because regardless of what we believe in, we have an absolute belief that ours is the one true belief. We all believe that anyone who does not think as we d ...[text shortened]... ld, or at least the Internet, or even just RHP a better place to be and exchange our thoughts.aa
General forum is everyday stuff.
Go to debates.