Originally posted by trev33Most who post in the forums are playing around that age group, so I am just going with the flow.
ah the old 'i know you are but what am i' come back. you're going to have to evolve from preschool at some point rusty me ol' friend 😛
I didn't want to say you are out dating yourself they don't do lobotomy's anymore my skinny little buddy. 😛
Originally posted by Very RustyI respect him for being a ruthless strong leader who despite the terible human cost did a lot of good things the Soviet Union.
Always take things from where they come...Christ Stalin of all people! Do you look up to him?
this grin does not mean I'm happy he killed millions btw
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Some people say a man is made outta mud.
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood.
Muscle and blood, skin and bones;
A mind that's weak and a back that's strong.
You load sixteen tons an' what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go:
I owe my soul to the company store.
Well, I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine.
I picked up a shovel, an' I walked out to the mine.
I loaded sixteen tons of Number 9 coal,
An' the store boss said: "Well, bless my soul."
You load sixteen tons an' what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go:
I owe my soul to the company store.
Well, I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain.
Fightin' an' trouble was my middle name.
I was raised in the canebreak by an old mama lion,
Can't no high-toned woman makes me walk the line.
You load sixteen tons an' what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go:
I owe my soul to the company store.
Well, if you see me comin', better step aside.
A lotta men didn't, an' a lotta men died.
One fist of iron, the other of steel.
If the right one don't get you, then the left one will.
You load sixteen tons an' what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go:
I owe my soul to the company store.
Originally posted by ich binimKopfwegAn interesting question: What good did Stalin do that he couldn't have achieved without, for example, liquidating the kulaks?
I respect him for being a ruthless strong leader who despite the terible human cost did a lot of good things the Soviet Union.
this grin does not mean I'm happy he killed millions btw
😀
Of course he was a product of history, Lenin set up the climate of violence and Stalin was the next step in the sequence. And, of course, Mao outdid him in the killing stakes.
The one thing he is to be admired for, with a grim sort of admiration, is his feral talent for taking and keeping power.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIndeed. He got the job done. Russia needed propelling forward and the 5 year plans did this. Russia needed to be feed, the collectivised farms did this. Stalin had to secure power so opposition in any form was rooted out and dispatched of by the NKVD. He did what he had to do.
An interesting question: What good did Stalin do that he couldn't have achieved without, for example, liquidating the kulaks?
Of course he was a product of history, Lenin set up the climate of violence and Stalin was the next step in the sequence. And, of course, Mao outdid him in the killing stakes.
The one thing he is to be admired for, with a grim sort of admiration, is his feral talent for taking and keeping power.
Originally posted by ich binimKopfwegYou're just singing from Stalin's hymn sheet. Do you agree with the sentiment of the times, that it was better to kill ten innocents than let one guilty go free?
Indeed. He got the job done. Russia needed propelling forward and the 5 year plans did this. Russia needed to be feed, the collectivised farms did this. Stalin had to secure power so opposition in any form was rooted out and dispatched of by the NKVD. He did what he had to do.
There is no evidence beyond Stalin's say-so that he 'had to' purge the country of enemies, beyond the requirements of a paranoid autocrat who 'has to' kill all enemies real or perceived.
Is the irony of two million people (at least) starving to death during collectivisation lost on you? The Ukrainian word for this holocaust is Holodomor.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageNo I completely get where you're coming from. I do think it's attrocious the innocent people killed. However as this is strictly a discussion on Stalin and nothing personal, can you also not see that more than 2 million people, a lot more, were starving to death due to lack of food as the peasants were keeping a lot of grain or selling privately to foreign countries. Stalin resolved the food shortages for a majority of these people (granted 1931-32 was the biggest starvation period in Russia but after 1932 many people were fed and managed to improve their lives.) Also collectivisation was perceived by a vast majority of the peasants as a very good thing. The Kulaks obviously didn't but most peasants were living in mud huts with little or no agricultural machinary, no education, no chance of improvement. The collective farms brought people this, a chance to live a better life. Russia was backward, the underdog and Stalin pulled it up and gave it a fighting chance in less than 10 years. That is an achievement. I'm not praising his harsh discipline or the use of the NKVD in shooting people without trial or packing them off to Siberia but every country has to go through periods of change and have a strong, merciless leader to bring the country up. Every country has had this and it was Russia's turn. Although undoubtedly he was a malicious leader and perhaps more than paraniod about enemies he did help Russia out overall. He gave the majority of people something the Tsar never did because he was too busy living the life of luxury.
You're just singing from Stalin's hymn sheet. Do you agree with the sentiment of the times, that it was better to kill ten innocents than let one guilty go free?
There is no evidence beyond Stalin's say-so that he 'had to' purge the country of enemies, beyond the requirements of a paranoid autocrat who 'has to' kill all enemies real or perceived.
...[text shortened]... during collectivisation lost on you? The Ukrainian word for this holocaust is Holodomor.
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