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  1. Standard member eyeqpc
    Robbo
    29 Aug '04 02:10 / 1 edit
    Ok, a little suggestion that may help take the sting out of the tail of all the bickering.

    Why not Russ devise the ability for the moderators to label a thread with some cautionary message or symbol if anything within it can be construed as offensive, if any further complaints then indeed moderate it. This also gives any user the option whether they want to view a thread or not, if they are too concerned with being offended don't view the thread.

    Obviously remove or mod something that is in no question offensive but this method will let the RHP community decide as a whole what is offensive or not.

    This way there will be a major decrease of complaints by people who have been modded (in there opinion) unfairly.

    I will probably read this tomorrow when sober and think what a stupid idea, this was conceived with the assistance of alcohol, but at this precise moment in time it seems a pretty sound idea to me 🙂

    Robbo
  2. Subscriber Russ
    RHP Code Monkey
    29 Aug '04 09:41
    I actually think this might not be a bad idea. If all threads were self classifed, and then could be re-classified by moderators, then it would be possible for forum readers to set their own filter on content that they read in the forums....

    I will discuss this with Chris at least. But I will say, it would not remove moderation as we have it now, but could allow more leniency.

    -Russ
  3. Standard member eyeqpc
    Robbo
    29 Aug '04 10:37
    Obviously I and the majority have no problem with with posts/threads being moderated to delete/amend blatant offensive material. But I do think this added feature would assist the moderators in being sensible about what is to be moderated. Each moderator is an individual who may perceive something as offensive that other moderators and RHP members may not. I am sure something in place similar to my idea will not only reduce the needless moderation but can see a better collaboration between Mods and RHP members. This may make a more friendly community. The absolute essence in what attracted me to RHP in the first place.

  4. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    29 Aug '04 19:51
    This is a great idea, because it gives the best of both worlds. It would provide a filtering system for those who want more moderation, but allow those who want less to have some latitude.

    Perhaps we can modify an idea Phlabibit had and allow the starter of a thread to dictate the "rating" of a thread; that is, the initial poster would rate his or her post at 'G,' 'PG,' or 'R.'

    We could say that the general forum would have nothing but 'G' threads, the debates forum have a minimum of 'PG' threads, and a 'My Filters' setting preventing threads with too severe a rating from being viewed.

    Instead of deleting posts at first, moderators could start out by changing the rating, until the posts go beyond the pale. This wouldn't be an advocation of offensive language or topics, but would allow the differentiation for those who want more restrained content.

    Nemesio
  5. 29 Aug '04 20:41 / 3 edits
    i'm not sure what the logic behind this is. we already have a debates forum where there is greater leniency. now we are introducing a rating system for threads?

    it has already been suggested that we have an anything goes forum and the idea was seen to be rather unsound (belgianfreak made the best arguments i recall), partly because there is bound to be outflow from it elsewhere - and there is possibly no way to prevent inflow of people into the forum.

    so now are we talking about say 'adult' content threads appearing?
    aren't there plenty of places where people can go to in order to participate in this sort of content?

    also, where would these threads stand in terms of the TOS?
    for instance, can a thread be labelled R say for racist posts?
    how about P for pornography?
    may be V for violence?
    we could have our own microcosm that way!

    wouldn't it be simpler just to make a separate forum for whatever anyone feels like posting and provide a passkey system for those that want it (and why not for a small additional fee too)?

    i thought there were lots of other site improvements that are of greater concern on RHP, rather than worrying about how to accommodate certain posting styles and desires.

    in friendship,
    prad
  6. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    30 Aug '04 04:41
    No one is advocating posts on violence, pornography, or racism, Pradtf.

    Please don't paint Eyeqpc's post in that light.

    The fact is there are mature topics discussed at RHP all the time that kids shouldn't be exposed to, but that are not in violation of the TOS.

    No one is talking about violating the sacrosanct TOS, just giving parents a way of protecting their kids from content too mature for them.

    Nemesio
  7. 30 Aug '04 04:57 / 7 edits
    Originally posted by nemesio
    No one is advocating posts on violence, pornography, or racism, Pradtf.

    Please don't paint Eyeqpc's post in that light.

    The fact is there are mature topics discussed at RHP all the time that kids shouldn't be exposed to, but that a ...[text shortened]... protecting their kids from content too mature for them.

    Nemesio
    i wasn't worried about eyeqpc's post - it was yours i was concerned about, nemesio. i'm not sure what you mean by 'R' which seems to accommodate a multitude of notions depending on your viewpoint. presumably 'R' is also not in violation of the sacrosanct TOS.

    so what you are saying from what i understand now is that you want to take the existing content which is well within the sacrosanct TOS and just keep categorizing it. in other words, this would presumably add some information that the title doesn't provide.

    so let's say that the thread starts with a G rating and someone posts something that is a PG in it.
    so now the mods because they don't need to remove the PG post which is well within the sacrosanct TOS change the label of the thread to PG so that parents can direct their children away from it (or russ' filter kicks in and it doesn't even appear on their screen).

    is that the entire idea then?

    in friendship,
    prad
  8. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    30 Aug '04 16:42
    This is not an effort to railroad the TOS. I've never said I disagree with the TOS anyway, just that I feel it needs clarification.

    To clear this up for you:

    By 'R' I mean, appropriate for 17+
    By 'PG' I mean, appropriate for 13+
    By 'G' I mean, appropriate for all.

    Perhaps a different rating system with less connotation would be better, if you feel such a system would implicitly give license to offensive material in clear violation of the TOS.

    As I have observed several places before, there are topics well within the TOS that are appropriate for adults only; you and I have had such discussions. Right now, the 'In Memorium' (sic) or 'Friendship and Betrayal' threads would be examples of those that I wouldn't want my 12 year old reading, but I don't dispute their validity and importance. I don't believe they violate the TOS; perhaps you don't agree, I don't know.

    I know nothing about coding, so I can't comment how such an idea would be implemented. I am simply saying that the idea has some great potential (Russ evidently thinks so, as well). Is it without flaw? Is there a similar system that would work better?

    I think these questions are inherent to the posting of the idea. I can't speak definitively for Eyeqpc, but I am sure by rating a thread, he wasn't advocating pornography or racism, just a little more latitude for those with varying levels of comfort.

    Nemesio
  9. 30 Aug '04 18:28
    Originally posted by nemesio
    This is not an effort to railroad the TOS. I've never said I disagree with the TOS anyway, just that I feel it needs clarification.

    To clear this up for you:

    By 'R' I mean, appropriate for 17+
    By 'PG' I mean, appropriate for 13+
    By 'G' I mean, appropriate for all.

    Perhaps a different rating system with less connotation would be better, if ...[text shortened]... aphy or racism, just a little more latitude for those with varying levels of comfort.

    Nemesio
    well your additions make a bit more sense now to some extent, perhaps.

    however, i hope it is not given a priority since there are plenty of chess related matters that i think are a lot more important than this all this forum stuff.

    in friendship,
    prad
  10. 30 Aug '04 19:46
    Forum is integral part of the site, moreover there is more contraversy about forums at the moment, than about other site features. So in my view forums improvements are of no less importance. I like rating idea.
  11. 30 Aug '04 20:06 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by TovMauzer
    Forum is integral part of the site, moreover there is more contraversy about forums at the moment, than about other site features. So in my view forums improvements are of no less importance. I like rating idea.
    no the forum controversy is over. it has been ended. it is not to start up again.

    enough is enough

    what we are talking about here isn't controversy, but possible additions to the system - extended features. they are curious, but, imho, may not be a bad idea to consider eventually, especially in the context of zucchini's child friendly ideas.

    in friendship,
    prad
  12. 30 Aug '04 21:14
    Originally posted by pradtf
    no the forum controversy is over. it has been ended. it is not to start up again.

    enough is enough

    what we are talking about here isn't controversy, but possible additions to the system - extended features. they are curious, but, imho, may not be a bad idea to consider eventually, especially in the context of zucchini's child friendly ideas.

    in friendship,
    prad
    You have amazing skill to twist other' words... Ever thought about taking up politics? I'd predict you bright career in this field.
  13. 30 Aug '04 21:41 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by pradtf
    they are curious, but, imho, may not be a bad idea to consider eventually, especially in the context of zucchini's child friendly ideas.
    now my question would be how is this rating system to be established.

    is it possible for instance to acquire and apply the cinema categories directly to the forum posts for instance?
    should we be setting up our own categories?
    who makes the final decision for categorizing?
    does anyone know of any other forums where this is done so this does not have to be created from scratch?


    i think it may be an idea to try a few manual 'simulations' on some test threads just to see how the mechanisms work as far as the labelling goes. we did something similar several days ago when trying out the thread-creator-controls-content idea.

    in friendship,
    prad
  14. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    30 Aug '04 22:19
    I'm glad you are participating in discussing the idea, rather than dismissing it as you appeared to be doing earlier.

    Originally posted by pradtf
    now my question would be how is this rating system to be established.

    This is one of the ostensible purposes of the thread.

    Originally posted by pradtf
    is it possible for instance to acquire and apply the cinema categories directly to the forum posts for instance?

    I think your point earlier that such categories as 'PG' and 'R' might connote meanings not intended (that is, as a license to be obscene). I think it would be wisest to devise a system that didn't refer so directly to an outside system.

    Originally posted by pradtf
    should we be setting up our own categories?
    who makes the final decision for categorizing?


    I think we need to flesh these ideas out. Three possibilities exist. One, the creator of the thread sets a level for discussion and anything that deviates from that level gets deleted; or, the creator sets a level but if a response exceeds it, the whole thread rises to the level of the most mature post (the whole thread is filtered); or, the individual posts get rated (alerts can be used to 'rerate' a thread, or recommend its deletion) and the filtering system simply filters out individual posts based on users' settings.

    There may be more ways of dividing things, but these three come to mind immediately.

    Originally posted by pradtf
    does anyone know of any other forums where this is done so this does not have to be created from scratch?

    Good question. Eyeqpc might (?).

    Originally posted by pradtf
    i think it may be an idea to try a few manual 'simulations' on some test threads just to see how the mechanisms work as far as the labelling goes. we did something similar several days ago when trying out the thread-creator-controls-content idea.

    Before we do this, it's probably best to create some definitions, and then test those definitions against existing and potential threads.

    One thing I think would be helpful would be to give a maximum threshold to certain forums. For example, I think the threshold for the general forum should be 'G,' so that everyone can participate. I think the clans and debates forum really need a 'R' threshold in order to allow for mature debate and taunting (again, not an endorsement of TOS breaking).

    Perhaps we need an adults forum for things that would ordinarily appear in the general forum (i.e., not debates), in order to allow for those topics to be expressed.

    Let's brainstorm the idea at hand here folks, and not turn this into a 'freedom of speech' or 'the TOS is Scripture' thread. Ok?

    Nemesio
  15. 30 Aug '04 22:55 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by nemesio
    I'm glad you are participating in discussing the idea, rather than dismissing it as you appeared to be doing earlier.
    i didn't like the way it was stated by you initially. i did not want a re-emergence of the same stuff of the past 2 weeks that has finally been ended for us. after you clarified, i gave it some more thought and found that at least some of the rationale may be reasonable. it is, however, something we should test out rather than have russ spend his time on, until we are certain the ideas are feasible.

    I think your point earlier that such categories as 'PG' and 'R' might connote meanings not intended (that is, as a license to be obscene). I think it would be wisest to devise a system that didn't refer so directly to an outside system.
    hmmm ... i think you may be right about this for the very reasons you state. we don't need a microcosm.

    There may be more ways of dividing things, but these three come to mind immediately.
    good ideas possibly, but perhaps since it isn't going to be purely in the creator's hands, it may not make sense to have the creator set it - perhaps. it may be easier to determine how things are set actually if we do establish the categories first. then we have something to work with.

    another idea that comes to mind, if you really want this to be poster driven is to have category buttons for each post (similar to alert mod or recommend). that way anyone can put the rating up. i don't know if this is necessarily a good idea or whether it would be better to have an independent body make the determination.

    Before we do this, it's probably best to create some definitions, and then test those definitions against existing and potential threads.
    agreed.

    One thing I think would be helpful would be to give a maximum threshold to certain forums.
    i don't think i like this too much. i think there are excellent debates which are quite beneficial for younger people. also, a lot of fun stuff goes on in the clan forums - the goading is quite playful. i think it is better to have the threshold set by the thread. nor do i like the adults forum idea for the reasons that bf gave. if the threads are controlled properly, there is no reason for the forums to be.


    i think though that the next step is to proceed with your idea of getting some categories that are compliant with the TOS and allow for a divergence of expression. once that is done with some care, then it should be possible to do some actual testing of the various ideas put forward.

    in friendship,
    prad