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  1. Subscriber Chris
    Site Admin
    25 Jul '03 18:37 / 1 edit
    As we all know, the use of opening databases and books is permitted and indeed encouraged in correspondence chess.

    How would people feel if I were to implement an openings assistant that could be accessed from the board view? I haven't given an enormous amount of thought to the detail, so if you have any ideas, please let me know...

    The opening tool I have been using recently is http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/

  2. 25 Jul '03 23:08
    Sounds like a good idea.

    -trekkie
  3. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    25 Jul '03 23:14
    Sounds good to me!
  4. 27 Jul '03 02:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Chrismo
    As we all know, the use of opening databases and books is permitted and indeed encouraged in correspondence chess.

    How would people feel if I were to implement an openings assistant that could be accessed from the board view? I haven't ...[text shortened]... have been using recently is http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/

    That would be fine, I need all the help I can get!

    Rolf / Silver24
  5. 27 Jul '03 03:07
    i could do with all the help i can get
  6. Standard member Toe
    27 Jul '03 12:30
    I'm one of those who don't use books/databases and prefer to play those that don't either.

    I suspect this plan would increase the use of machine openings, which Chrismo suggests is 'encouraged' in correspondence chess.

    Fair enough: for those that want it, go. But i would suggest a game setup / profile setting to turn it off. i.e. the assistant would not work in any game where eirther player has a profile open "No opening assistant" checked.

    Granted, people can still use a non-integrated opening database, but that's no different to the present 'trust' system that seems to be working fine.

    So all in all, so long as I can disable it, then by all means!
  7. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    27 Jul '03 14:37
    I don't think it should be able to be disabled.(weird sentence!). It's almost as if you want to break correspondence chess rules or something. If they can out and check it out in NCO then why ban it here. It's just wasting others' time.
  8. Standard member Toe
    27 Jul '03 14:49
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    I don't think it should be able to be disabled.(weird sentence!). It's almost as if you want to break correspondence chess rules or something. If they can out and check it out in NCO then why ban it here. It's just wasting others' time.
    Indeed: a very odd sentence. Not even a double negative: just plain old odd!

    But anyway, it's not banning: its a preference of your opposing player not to waste their time playing a machine, even if only for the first few moves. Disabling the assistant would make it less likely that an opponent who wanted to use a database would bother playing me, which is a good result in my book.

    Of course it is simple to get around it, but that's no different to ignoring a written profile preference to avoid database play and doing it anyway.

    The logical extention of the assistant is for the game to take the first X moves without even asking the two 'players'. Well, I suppose the white player might have to choose their first move, but perhaps one day we could automate that too?
  9. Standard member SirLoseALot
    Shut Gorohoviy!
    27 Jul '03 15:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Toe
    Indeed: a very odd sentence. Not even a double negative: just plain old odd!

    But anyway, it's not banning: its a preference of your opposing player not to waste their time playing a machine, even if only for the first few moves. Disabling t ...[text shortened]... eir first move, but perhaps one day we could automate that too?
    Hey,we're talking about a database here,not a chessplaying program.It will not make the moves for you,it will only assist in making a choice.Almost eliminating opening blunders.This is the nature of corr chess.
    Though I must say,I can highly appreciate your approach to not use any help.
    I started out not using any book or base,but now I use them to try out new openings or other lines in an opening I regularly play.
    I do agree that we should be able to turn if off.Having the choice makes perfect for both sides.
  10. Standard member Toe
    27 Jul '03 17:05
    Originally posted by SirLoseALot
    Hey,we're talking about a database here,not a chessplaying program.It will not make the moves for you,it will only assist in making a choice.Almost eliminating opening blunders.This is the nature of corr chess.
    Though I must say,I can highly appreciate your approach to not use any help.
    I started out not using any book or base,but now I use them to tr ...[text shortened]... do agree that we should be able to turn if off.Having the choice makes perfect for both sides.
    That's what i would go for, if chrismo wants to put the work in; the more choices people have, the better.

    I did think of a litle automation that might, very occationally, be of practical assistance; an end-game assistant for cases of playing out an absolutley obvious win. e.g. the assistant becomes active at any time your opponent only has king + pawns, while you've got better. that way a 'spoiler' (min move rate, waiting for you to one day go on vaccation and TO you) could be played automatically. Can't imagine it being used much though, so basically wasn't going to mention it, but then I did. How well worked out was that? About as good as my openings really...
  11. Standard member SirLoseALot
    Shut Gorohoviy!
    27 Jul '03 17:35
    A program that plays out your won endings??? Right! ROFL
    I want one that plays my openings and middlegames.The won ending I will handle myself
  12. 27 Jul '03 19:54 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Chrismo
    (snip)How would people feel if I were to implement an openings assistant that could be accessed from the board view? (snip)

    The opening tool I have been using recently is http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/

    I like this idea a lot and I also like the Chess Ops site you mention. If you could code something that displayed a link to a relevant page on that site, it wold be wnderful.

    It would also allow the opening used to be shown in lists of games or allow you to go on to let people search for games according to opening, answering requests I've seen in some other threads.

    Roland
  13. Donation ChessNut
    Lightly Salted...
    28 Jul '03 16:50
    I don't like it. I think it will even out the playing field too far. I like playing my own game and against people that play their own game. Granted, I have a few where I use books and DB's but for the most part I like the chance of making an opening blunder. You'll have people here that after 2 days of playing chess in their life can play out a Najdorf 20 moves deep. I don't think that's what this site is for. The human aspect of our games in the beginning is part of the fun.

    Bryan
  14. 28 Jul '03 18:37
    Personally I have quite a bad memory for openings and I don't enjoy playing good opposition in real time because my instant analysis does not compete with their deeply memorised openings strategy. I don't realy like losing to someone at chess simply because they have a better memory than me.

    I find having access to an openings database is what makes playing at RHP fun for me and I would heartily accept an openings assistant.
  15. Standard member SirLoseALot
    Shut Gorohoviy!
    29 Jul '03 04:27
    Sorry (chess)nut,but I don't agree.Evening out the opening play is exactly what corr chess is all about.A few days ago I lost a 'live' game in 20 moves,just 'cause my 6th move sucked.This almost never happens to me here,'cause I can use a book or think long about my move.This way I always reach a middlegame where I have winning chances and then I can start thinking for myself and learn about middlegame play.That is the reason why I play here.
    I don't always use a book,about 50% of the time,and I don't always think carefully about my moves.So I blunder openings here too.But hey,that's just who I am