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  1. 19 Mar '04 04:46
    I understand how the timbank is figured. I don't understand why we need one. Timeouts seem to cover anything I would need.
    What purpose do timbanks serve?

    Glen Ray
    (GlenR)
  2. Standard member SirLoseALot
    Shut Gorohoviy!
    19 Mar '04 04:56
    They are implemented in the hope that people would stop whining about getting timed out.Personally I think it's laughable HAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHARHARHAR
  3. 19 Mar '04 05:08
    I've got a game right now that I've been playing since December.
    My opponent plays almost every day, he just doesn't play my game. He moves once each 5 or 6 days. (He's not doing real well)
    If I were playing him with a timebank, what would keep him from waiting 19 to 20 days?
    Is the timbank an optional thing that can be set when a game is started or is it a mandetory thing?
  4. Subscriber Russ
    RHP Code Monkey
    19 Mar '04 09:18

    The thing to remember is that the timebank never 'refills' - so it can't be abused.

    So when creating games, always create low timeout, high timebank. This way you can almost guarantee a swift game, with the insurance of the timebank should you not be able to make a move for whatever reason.

    On a related note, I adjusted the default settings on the create game page yesterday in favour of faster games.

    -Russ
  5. Standard member Ravello
    The RudeΒ©
    19 Mar '04 17:48
    Originally posted by Russ

    The thing to remember is that the timebank never 'refills' - so it can't be abused.

    So when creating games, always create low timeout, high timebank. This way you can almost guarantee a swift game, with the insurance of the timebank should you not be able to make a move for whatever reason.

    On a related note, I adjusted the default settings on the create game page yesterday in favour of faster games.

    -Russ
    Great Russ,now we have 3 days T/O and 7 T/B by default,I needed that...........
  6. 19 Mar '04 18:08
    Originally posted by GlenR

    If I were playing him with a timebank, what would keep him from waiting 19 to 20 days?
    Is the timbank an optional thing that can be set when a game is started or is it a mandetory thing?
    If you were playing him with a timebank, of say 28 days, he could only wait 28 days on one move during your game - after that he'd have spent his timebank. As Russ said, timebank doesn't re-set every move, but is a number of extra days that you can spend in any way you like during the game.

    The timebank actually does the opposite of what you think it does - it speeds up games. This is because now when you play a 7-day timeout game, your opponent can wait a full 7 days per move making the game last very long. But then again, you might not want to play 3-day timeout games, because most of us can't guarantee that there won't be a 3 day (+ 1 second πŸ˜‰ ) period at some point during the the game when they cannot, for whatever reason, play on RHP.

    The timebank solves this dillemma - instead of a 7 day timeout challenge, play 3-day / 14 day timebank challenges! Then the ultra slow player can only take a maximum of 3 days per move, plus a 14 days spread out trhough the game. At the same time, because of the timebank, it doesn't matter if you have some emergency that takes you a away for 3 days and 1 second, because you have the 14 days in your timebank for such unexpected occurances.

    To compare - in a seven day challenge without timebank, where the game takes 40 moves, the maximally slow opponent can take a 7 * 40 = 280 days for the game. The same slow player, in a similar 40 move game but with a TO of 3 days and a 14 day timebank could maximally take 3 * 40 + 14 = 134 days for his moves in the game.

    In other words, if you use timebanks properly, they speed up your games against the once-a-decade type of opponent.

    -Jarno
  7. 20 Mar '04 00:07
    OK, I'm not trying to be a pot stirrer, but help me understand how a 3 day t/o with a 14 day t/b is going to make a game play faster than a game with just a 3 day t/o.

    Is the t/b a value I can set when I start a new game? If it is, then this whole thread is not relevant. (provided I can also set a restriction that challenges will not be excepted with a t/b greater than my preference)
  8. 20 Mar '04 00:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by GlenR
    OK, I'm not trying to be a pot stirrer, but help me understand how a 3 day t/o with a 14 day t/b is going to make a game play faster than a game with just a 3 day t/o.

    Is the t/b a value I can set when I start a new game? If it is, then ...[text shortened]... lenges will not be excepted with a t/b greater than my preference)
    When you compare 3 day timeouts to 3 day t/o with X days timebank you are missing the point - the comparison should be made with 7 day timeout against 3 day timeout with X days timebank.

    Of course a 3 day t/o game with 14 day t/b isn't going to be faster than a 3 day challenge without timebank, but the point is that people who, before the timebanks were introduced, would not play 3 day timebank games because while they normally could meet the time limit, as I explained in my previous post, most people can't guarantee that there won't be one or two more than 3 day periods during the game when they cannot move.

    But now, with the timebank feature, people who would previously be forced to take only 7-day timeout games (because of the aforementioned uncertainty), and as a consequence suffer at the hands of opponents who would really take the full 7 days per move, can now take 3 day timeouts with timebank, thus getting the best of both worlds - a faster game against deliberately slow players, and a guarantee that if they have some emergency during the game that keeps them away for the computer for, say 5 days, they won't be timed out because of the timebank.

    In other words, the timebank makes it possible for shorter timeout periods to be chosen than would be the case if the timebank wasn't there.

    This can be similarly applied if you think that 3 day timeout is too slow, but hesitate to take 1 day timeouts because you do want to take the weekend off on occasion - with the timebank, you can make it a 1-day t/o with 14 or 28 day timebank. Again, you'll ensure that the game doesn't last as long as a regular 3 day timeout, but also won't be as unforgiving as a regular 1 day timeout without timebank.

    And to answer the other question, when you start a new game, you can select the timebank (Options ranging from no timebank to 28 day timebank), as well as the timeout limit.

    -Jarno
  9. 20 Mar '04 07:14
    I can see where you're coming from. Personally I feel having a timebank takes the teeth out of the timeout and will result in longer games. ( but I could be wrong. 'Just look how many games I've lost'πŸ˜‰.

    As long as I can choose the option, it doesn't matter. The only weakness is that I can't select the option on my challenge settings.
  10. 20 Mar '04 20:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by GlenR
    Personally I feel having a timebank takes the teeth out of the timeout and will result in longer games.
    Hmm... I don't understand why you would feel that. For example, I used to play only 7 day timeouts before the timebank, and now I prefer to play 3 day timeouts with 14 - 28 day timebank. The existence of the timebank makes it possible for me to play 3 day timeouts.

    It is a simple mathematical fact that in a 3 day timeout game with 14 day (or 28 day) timebank a slow opponent can drag out the game for a significantly shorter time than in a 7 day timeout withuot timebank. It is also been my experience that in practice, 3 day timeout games with timebank are indeed faster than 7 day timeout games without timebank.

    A slow player that would take 5 days per move in a 3 day t/o game with 14 days in timebank could only do so for the first 7 moves - after that, he'd have spent his timebank, and he'd have to move every three days at least, or he'd risk being timed out. Isn't that a much better option than having a 7 day t/o game without timebank, where the same player could go on moving once in 5 days (or once in 7 days!) throughout the game?

    -Jarno
  11. 21 Mar '04 19:44
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me if you are bothered by slow games, put a 3 day time out on it and be a gentleman about extending grace to those who communicate a need to be absent longer. This of course assumes you will communicate with your opponent when you require grace. I find most chess players are great people and will bend over backward if asked to do so.
    Another option is to bring the subject up to a slow player. If he's on the system every day and not playing your game, he may have a good reason. Communication is easy on this website.
  12. 21 Mar '04 20:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by GlenR
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me if you are bothered by slow games, put a 3 day time out on it and be a gentleman about extending grace to those who communicate a need to be absent longer. This of course assumes you will communicate with ...[text shortened]... he may have a good reason. Communication is easy on this website.
    That is true - I'm not in any hurry to claim timeouts myself, and am very wiling to wait if contacted about it beforehand.

    However, that's not the case with all players - there are many that consider the timeout a part of the game, like the chess clock in OTB chess. I don't agree with them, but I understand if that's their take on it. In addition there are, I'm sad to say, some who'll even time out vacationers: at the earliest opportunity too - waiting with their finger on the button for the skull to appear next to the game.

    To have extensions based on courtecy is very uncertain in that with many opponents it would work fine, but with many it would not. A significant number of players aren't very courteous, or are too fixated on improving their ratings to pass up the opportunity to time out someone. Before the timebank feature, there were always angry threads popping up when someone came back from vacation only to find out that they were timed out in a number of games, despite the vacation flag. I don't remember seeing those kinds of threads since the introduction of the timebanks.

    Besides, adding a small, fixed number of days to the total duration of a game makes little difference when you compare it to the duration of the game - a 40 move game with moves once every three days takes long enough to make an extra 14 days quite negligible addition to the duration. And if your opponent moves more often than that, then he's unlikely to use his timebank at all - except for unexpected exceptional circumstances.

    I'm all for communication, but personally, I do think the timebank feature is one of the best additions to the site during my time here. And of course, there's always the option to play games without timebank, if someone doesn't like the feature. πŸ™‚

    -Jarno
  13. 21 Mar '04 21:21
    I've only played around 50 games here, so I'm certainly not an authority on how things work. I've only had one slow player and after a quick communication that has improved.

    I have a vacation coming up in May and I'll probably be glad I have a timebank.

    The more options we have the better. Overall I hope you are right and the site will be improved.

    My your queen never be forked.
    Glen Ray