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  1. 17 Feb '06 14:25
    I was playing through a game from 1978 between Karpov and Korchnoi and I let Fritz analyse it; the first 18 moves came out as book moves.

    I found this very depressing.
  2. Standard member Freddie2008
    9 Edits
    17 Feb '06 14:27
    Originally posted by Sheerluck Holmes
    I was playing through a game from 1978 between Karpov and Korchnoi and I let Fritz analyse it; the first 18 moves came out as book moves.

    I found this very depressing.
    No sh!t Sherlock.
  3. 17 Feb '06 14:54
    In support of Sheerluck Holmes, I would gather he meant that it is very depressing that grandmasters have such impressive memory of book moves. Hence showing us mere mortals that we have very little chance of reaching that level of play.

    By the way Freddie, your avatar is freaky.
  4. 17 Feb '06 15:17
    Originally posted by Sheerluck Holmes
    I was playing through a game from 1978 between Karpov and Korchnoi and I let Fritz analyse it; the first 18 moves came out as book moves.

    I found this very depressing.
    Perhaps that game put the moves in the book in the first place.
  5. Standard member Freddie2008
    9 Edits
    17 Feb '06 15:17
    Originally posted by lausey
    In support of Sheerluck Holmes, I would gather he meant that it is very depressing that grandmasters have such impressive memory of book moves. Hence showing us mere mortals that we have very little chance of reaching that level of play.

    By the way Freddie, your avatar is freaky.
    XanthosNZ once told me he knew some openings to 18 or 20 moves deep and no offence but he's not a GM.

    p.s. cool huh
  6. 17 Feb '06 15:27
    That's kind of my point Lausey. There was only 8-10 moves of real chess. The rest may as well have been pre-arranged between them (maybe it was?!)

    Although part of the beauty of chess is the set-up, it makes me wonder if Fischer had a point with his randomization ideas.
  7. 17 Feb '06 15:27
    Originally posted by Freddie2006
    XanthosNZ once told me he knew some openings to 18 or 20 moves deep and no offence but he's not a GM.

    p.s. cool huh
    Ok, fair enough, no offence taken, but meant that Grandmasters in general would know a vast number of book moves, so looking up any GM game would remain in book at great depth. That is what is depressing (even though it would be stating the obvious! ). Most of us here would have to rely on books and databases to play in book that deep, but grandmasters (or very advanced level players) would do so straight off the top of their heads.

    Having said that, it does not mean that learning book moves is recommended to begineers, but learn good chess strategy. Once that has become second nature, learning book moves would become easier.
  8. 17 Feb '06 15:27
    Originally posted by Freddie2006
    XanthosNZ once told me he knew some openings to 18 or 20 moves deep and no offence but he's not a GM.

    p.s. cool huh
    Some openings don't even 'begin' until 18 moves in (e.g. main line Botvinnik Semi-slav)
  9. 17 Feb '06 16:47
    Originally posted by welsharnie
    Some openings don't even 'begin' until 18 moves in (e.g. main line Botvinnik Semi-slav)
    very true ... which makes the life of a professional chess player very unpleasant because of the necessity to memorize chess opening theory. it's better to be an amateur, to be naive about chess openings, and to just enjoy playing imperfect chess, apply flawed human logic and irrational strategies.
  10. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Feb '06 16:48
    Originally posted by Sheerluck Holmes
    I was playing through a game from 1978 between Karpov and Korchnoi and I let Fritz analyse it; the first 18 moves came out as book moves.

    I found this very depressing.
    Which game?

    In their WCC Match:
    game 1 was an eighteen move draw
    game 2 featured a novelty by Korchnoi on move 14
    game 3 Karpov produced the novelty on move 9 (according the Raymond Keene, who wavers slighty in his opinion--his book of the match was produced prior to computer databases)
    game 4 was a nineteen move draw in which Korchnoi on move 14 played what he had called a blunder in ECO (1st edition, 1974)
    game 5 Korchnoi produced a novelty on move 14

    I could go on, but if you just tell us which game you're referring to, it will save some time.
  11. 17 Feb '06 22:42
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Which game?

    In their WCC Match:
    game 1 was an eighteen move draw
    game 2 featured a novelty by Korchnoi on move 14
    game 3 Karpov produced the novelty on move 9 (according the Raymond Keene, who wavers slighty in his opinion--his book of the match was produced prior to computer databases)
    game 4 was a nineteen move draw in wh ...[text shortened]...
    I could go on, but if you just tell us which game you're referring to, it will save some time.
    it has been said in other words here allready, but those 'novelties' are probably book moves now
  12. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Feb '06 23:14
    Originally posted by Testrider
    it has been said in other words here allready, but those 'novelties' are probably book moves now
    Forgive me, I cannot find where the specific game in question was referenced, although I can find a good deal of speculation.

    Geez. If someone has Fritz, why can't he or she simply paste the game and analysis in PGN format into these forums. Then, we'll all know what Sheerluck is talking about.
  13. Standard member Jean Hebert
    1 e4 Draw!
    21 Feb '06 05:03
    I play once 1 a3 ?!, and my opponent play 1... a6 ?!
    GM I. Ivanov called "No Opening, No Gambit, No Defense" Game.
    We draw in 16 move.
    JH
  14. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    21 Feb '06 05:51
    Originally posted by Jean Hebert
    I play once 1 a3 ?!, and my opponent play 1... a6 ?!
    GM I. Ivanov called "No Opening, No Gambit, No Defense" Game.
    We draw in 16 move.
    JH
    I'd call it the "Procrastinator's Opening".
  15. Standard member buffalobill
    Major Bone
    21 Feb '06 13:12
    Originally posted by Jean Hebert
    I play once 1 a3 ?!, and my opponent play 1... a6 ?!
    GM I. Ivanov called "No Opening, No Gambit, No Defense" Game.
    We draw in 16 move.
    JH
    You should add it to the chessgames.com database. It's not there, although it has 157 of your other games. In fact, it will be the only one with that line.