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  1. 08 Apr '06 11:02
    This has to be one of the most annoying moves ever.

    What is the best way for Black to proceed?
  2. 08 Apr '06 11:13
    2. ... g6 and fianchetto, or
    2. ... h6 and 3. Bh4 g5

    no need to worry about 2.Bxf6.
  3. 08 Apr '06 11:43
    You might find this game amusing. It's a good example of how not to play against it.

    Masscat-RM
    CCLA 2002
    1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.e3 Nf6 5.Bg3 d6 6.h4 g4 7.h5 Be6 8.Ne2 Bf7 9.Nf4 Nbd7 10.Bd3 e5 11.dxe5 dxe5 12.Ng6 Bxg6 13.hxg6 e4 14.Bc4 Qe7 15.Bxc7 Bg7 16.Bd6 1-0
  4. 08 Apr '06 12:53
    If you are happy playing the french defence (like I am!) than 1. ...e6 with 2. ...f5 usually seems to do the trick.
  5. 08 Apr '06 13:00
    Originally posted by Tengu
    If you are happy playing the french defence (like I am!) than 1. ...e6 with 2. ...f5 usually seems to do the trick.
    lol. Have you even looked at the position after 2.Bg5?
  6. 08 Apr '06 13:48
    no! I just post random comments because i feel like it.

    After all its not what i do in real life and it isnt what is recommended by IM simon williams in his book "Play the classical dutch" as the means to avoid Bg5.
  7. 08 Apr '06 13:52
    Originally posted by Tengu
    no! I just post random comments because i feel like it.

    After all its not what i do in real life and it isnt what is recommended by IM simon williams in his book "Play the classical dutch" as the means to avoid Bg5.
    That is understandable as it would lose the queen.
  8. 08 Apr '06 13:56
    The point I'm trying to make, just to spell it out, is that 2. Bg5 is a strong anti-dutch move.

    The best way to deal with it is to avoid it altogether and alter your opening move order. Me, Im perfectley happy playing the french and so, like simon williams, will open with e6.

    If you hate the french, or for some reason must open with 1...f5 then he recommends 2. h6

    2...h6

    IF: 3. Bh4 g5
    Or 3. Bf4 e6!

    I wont give any more, I strongly recommend that if you play the dutch that you buy the book. Its excellent.
  9. 08 Apr '06 14:00
    Yeah, thats right. The IM who recommends losing your queen on move 3 every time your opponent opens with 1. d4

    You asked for advice. I gave some. If you are looking for a slanging match or other such silly conversation then I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.
  10. 08 Apr '06 14:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tengu
    If you are happy playing the french defence (like I am!) than 1. ...e6 with 2. ...f5 usually seems to do the trick.

    Originally posted by Positional Player
    lol. Have you even looked at the position after 2.Bg5?
    PP: In your haste to make somebody else look stupid in the forum, you have succeeded in making yourself look the fool.

    You should take a look at the move order he posted again.
    1. d4 e6


    That move order PREVENTS 2.Bg5, which was Tengu's point to begin with. Incidently, this is what Neil McDonald prescribes in his book "starting out: the dutch defence" as well.
  11. 08 Apr '06 15:13
    Woops I read wrong.
  12. 08 Apr '06 15:59
    No worries. I think its all cleared up now.

    So back to the original point: what do people think about 1...e6 followed by 2....f5 as the starting move order for the dutch??
  13. 08 Apr '06 16:22
    Sounds good. Is it still worth playing 2. Bg5 against 1... d5?
  14. 08 Apr '06 17:18
    I think so. isnt that the trompowsky?
  15. 08 Apr '06 17:36 / 1 edit
    Yeah, they call it the Pseudo-Trompowsky. The only thing I liked about it is if black tries to trap the bishop with h6 followed by g5 and f4, white could possibly get a good attack on the thing starting with Qh5 I think with Nf3 to follow.