I've always favoured the 2Knts variation after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 which then goes 3... Nf6 But I was recently OWNED after seeing 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 I stupidly played Nf6xd5 after which white replied with Nxf7! The game continued Kxf7 Qf3+ and I had basically lost a pawn and castling priveleges.
After looking into the better responses to 4.Ng4 I found 4...Bc5! which on chessgames.com has 287 games with an amazing score of 61.3% for black. I'm not sure what this variation is called but who here has played it?
I'm looking for some advice on the basic principals on this move as well as any games of people who have played it or played against it. Anyone here have any comments on it?
Also, can anyone reccommend any alternatives?
Here is a game: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1255201
Originally posted by ChessJesterI loved facing the 4.Ng5 move on Rhp and especailly OTB.
I've always favoured the 2Knts variation after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 which then goes 3... Nf6 But I was recently OWNED after seeing 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 I stupidly played Nf6xd5 after which white replied with Nxf7! The game continued Kxf7 Qf3+ and I had basically lost a pawn and castling priveleges.
After looking into the better responses to 4.Ng4 I foun ...[text shortened]... d any alternatives?
Here is a game: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1255201
I have played Bc5 but it's hard to play and you have to very very accurate.
I prefer 4...d5 5.exd5 b5!
Larry Christianson gave a lecture on this several years ago on chess.fm and Tamburro from ICC did a very similar lecture several months ago.
6. Nxf7 is known as the Fred Liver and is a favourite of aggressive beginners everywhere. But with best play it is thought to result in a draw.
4...Bc5 is known as the Traxler, aka Wilkes-Barre.
I once forced a bookless Fritz8 to resign in 20 moves(!) with it (at 40 in 120mins).
But Fritz9 plays 3. d4 rather than 3. Bc4
I will post the game if you are interested.
Originally posted by h2eddsf3OK, I will post it when I get home. Until then you will just have to make do with these:
Go ahead and post please.
Is that Wilkes-Barre as in Wilkes-Barre PA? Can you elaborate?
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz58.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz59.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz60.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz114.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz115.pdf
Yes, I think it is named after the chess club in that town.
4. ... Bc5 is a mistake which loses instantly to Nxf7, although there are a few complications to work through, white can basically just ride the material advantage home.
I would recommend 4. ... d5 5. exd5 b5!? which leads to wild complications after 6. Bf1 (given by theory as best) Nd4 7. c3 Nxd5! 8. cxd4 Qxg5 9. Bxb5+ Kd8. 8. Ne4 also leads to intense complications. 5. ... b5 is my favourite variation to play, but sadly I haven't had the chance to play it on RHP yet.
Originally posted by aenrkoThis isn't true at all. The best move is clearly Bxf7+. Nxf7 is thought to be great for black.
4. ... Bc5 is a mistake which loses instantly to Nxf7, although there are a few complications to work through, white can basically just ride the material advantage home.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Yeah, it's bloody obvious, innit?
The best move is clearly Bxf7+.
NOT
Anyway, here is the Traxler game that h2eddsf3 requested:
[White: Fritz8
[Black: ThudanBlunder]
[Result: 0-1]
[ECO: B01]
[Event: ShowdownattheHoedown]
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 Bc5
5. Nxf7 Bxf2+
6. Kxf2 Nxe4+
7. Kg1 Qe7
8. Nxh8 d5
9. exd5 Nd4
10. d6 cxd6
11. c3 Bg4
12. Qa4+ Kf8
13. cxd4 exd4
14. Kxf2 Nd4+
15. Kg1 Qf6
16. h3 Qf2+
17. Kh2 Qg3+
18. Kg1 Bf3
19. Bf1 Ng5!!
20. Resigns
.
Originally posted by ThudanBlunderAfter 6. ... Nxe4+ white can't play exd5, which he does on move 9. Mistake in the text?
Yeah, it's bloody obvious, innit?
NOT
Anyway, here is the Traxler game that h2eddsf3 requested:
[White: Fritz8
[Black: ThudanBlunder]
[Result: 0-1]
[ECO: B01]
[Event: ShowdownattheHoedown]
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 Bc5
5. Nxf7 Bxf2+
6. Kxf2 Nxe4+
7. Kg1 Qe7
8. Nxh8 d5
9. exd5 Nd4
10. d6 ...[text shortened]... Qf6
16. h3 Qf2+
17. Kh2 Qg3+
18. Kg1 Bf3
19. Bf1 Ng5!!
20. Resigns
.
Yeah, thanks. I got my lines crossed. Try this:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 Bc5
5. Nxf7 Bxf2+
6. Kf1 Qe7
7. Nxh8 d5
8. exd5 Nd4
9. d6 cxd6
10. c3 Bg4
11. Qa4+ Kf8
12. cxd4 cxd4
13. Kxf2 Ne4+
14. Kg1 Qf6
15. h3 Qf2+
16. Kh2 Qg3+
17. Kg1 Bf3
18. Bf1 Ng5!!
19. Resigns
Originally posted by ThudanBlunderThanks for clearing up why white loses on 6. Kf1 , but I don't see why white can't just play Kxf2 immediately. Any sample games in this line?
Yeah, thanks. I got my lines crossed. Try this:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 Bc5
5. Nxf7 Bxf2+
6. Kf1 Qe7
7. Nxh8 d5
8. exd5 Nd4
9. d6 cxd6
10. c3 Bg4
11. Qa4+ Kf8
12. cxd4 cxd4
13. Kxf2 Ne4+
14. Kg1 Qf6
15. h3 Qf2+
16. Kh2 Qg3+
17. Kg1 Bf3
18. Bf1 Ng5!!
19. Resigns
Originally posted by aenrkoI don't know if it's better or worse than 6. Kf1, but after 6. Kxf2 black gets a dangerous attack going with Nxe4+ followed by Qh4. Here's a game I found where Black seems to be the Wilkes-Barre Chess club:
Thanks for clearing up why white loses on 6. Kf1 , but I don't see why white can't just play Kxf2 immediately. Any sample games in this line?
[Event "City corr"]
[Site "corr"]
[Date "1931.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Perrine,George H"]
[Black "City Wilkes Barre CC"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "C57"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Kg1 Qh4 8.Qf1 Rf8
9.d3 Nd6 10.Nxd6+ cxd6 11.Qe2 Nd4 12.Qd2 Qg4 0-1