I just played this blitz game on ICC vs. IM and WGM Martica Fierro. It just shows what a beast that Bg7 is, even if it's only holding down the kingside. I was familiar with this line up till about move 17 (actually a similar variation without Kb1 and Re8, thank god for those moves being inserted, maybe it favors black since I don't have to waste a tempo later in the game making room for my king!) I haven't looked at it all that seriously yet, I am sure there will be improvements everywhere, because it's a Dragon, and it's impossible to find best moves! I would love to analyze this one a little bit and learn something.
[Event "ICC 5 0 u"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.11.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "MarticaFierro"]
[Black "TonyRo"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B78"]
[WhiteElo "2653"]
[BlackElo "1860"]
[PlyCount "74"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. O-O-O Ne5 11. Bb3 Rc8 12. Kb1 Re8 13. g4 b5 14. g5 b4 15. Nce2 Nh5 16. Ng3 Nxg3 17. hxg3 a5 18. Qh2 a4 19. Qxh7+ Kf8 20. Bd5 e6 21. Bb7 Rc7 22. Ba6 Qa8 23. Bd3 b3 24. cxb3 a3 25. bxa3 Qxa3 26. Qh2 Rc3 27. Qe2 Ra8 28. f4 Nxd3 29. Rxd3 Rxd3 30. Qxd3 Qxa2+ 31. Kc1 Qa1+ 32. Qb1 Rc8+ 33. Nc2 Rxc2+ 34. Kxc2 Qc3+ 35. Kd1 Qxe3 36. Re1 Qd4+ 37. Kc2 Bb5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Originally posted by !~TONY~!I looked at the game- man, that was awesome- very well played!
I just played this blitz game on ICC vs. IM and WGM Martica Fierro. It just shows what a beast that Bg7 is, even if it's only holding down the kingside. I was familiar with this line up till about move 17 (actually a similar variation without Kb1 and Re8, thank god for those moves being inserted, maybe it favors black since I don't have to waste a tempo lat ...[text shortened]... 5. Kd1 Qxe3 36. Re1 Qd4+ 37. Kc2 Bb5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Dang Tony...went through it in my head and it looked pretty good...will sit down with it with the board tomorrow.
I just played this blitz game on ICC vs. IM and WGM Martica Fierro. It just shows what a beast that Bg7 is, even if it's only holding down the kingside. I was familiar with this line up till about move 17 (actually a similar variation without Kb1 and Re8, thank god for those moves being inserted, maybe it favors black since I don't have to waste a tempo lat ...[text shortened]... 5. Kd1 Qxe3 36. Re1 Qd4+ 37. Kc2 Bb5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Taking scalps now I see...I taught you well!
Dave
( who knows Tony was on his way to being a strong player to begin with )
1 edit
Awesome game! Although, I'm not a Dragon player, this immediate b5 idea is a lot like what I do in the Accelerated Dragon so I can appreciate its strength when it works. Your counterplay was unstoppable!
However, I don't usually play Re8. Is this to give the bishop the a8 square or to lessen the effect of Bg5? I mean, I don't think you plan on e5. e6 is usually strange too because it weakens d6 even if it doesn't block the bishop.
Originally posted by nmdavidbAfter looking at it again, here are some interesting ideas:
Dang Tony...went through it in my head and it looked pretty good...will sit down with it with the board tomorrow.
Taking scalps now I see...I taught you well!
Dave
( who knows Tony was on his way to being a strong player to begin with )
20..Qc7! when it's hard to see how White keeps the bishop. Maybe he can muddy the waters with some silly like 21. f4 Ng4 22. Bd2 e6 23. e5! intending 24. Bxb4!
Maybe 24..a3 was overkill. I didn't realize this at the time, but maybe it's just easier to play 24..axb3, since on 25. Nxb3 I have 25..Nxf3. Who knows.
Unless White is already lost by this point, 26. Qh2 is almost certainly a blunder, because he has no way to respond to 26..Rc3! the best I can find is 27. Bc1, but of course 27..Rxc1! is not so hard to see.
Another try to defend for White is 26. Qh2 Rc3! 27. Qe2 Ra8! 28. Bc1 Qa5 (leaving White to figure out some slick way to defend again the simple 29..Nxd3 or 29..Rxd3) 29. Rh2 (the only try!) Nxd3 30. Rxd3 Bxd4! 31. Rxd4 Rxc1+! 32. Kxc1 Qc3+ -+
Good times.
Originally posted by exigentskyRe8 is to give the dragon h8 square I play it all the time because I don't know what to do when the other player plays Bh6 except to sac the exchange to keep the dragon bishop which I think is stronger than a rook in the opening.
Awesome game! Although, I'm not a Dragon player, this immediate b5 idea is a lot like what I do in the Accelerated Dragon so I can appreciate its strength when it works. Your counterplay was unstoppable!
However, I don't usually play Re8. Is this to give the bishop the a8 square or to lessen the effect of Bg5? I mean, I don't think you plan on e5 and e6 is usually strange too because it weakens d6 even if it doesn't block the bishop.
Originally posted by exigentskyThis ..Re8 idea was actually developed by some Dragon players after the routine 12..Nc4 started failing to 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4! There are many ideas with 12..Re8:
Awesome game! Although, I'm not a Dragon player, this immediate b5 idea is a lot like what I do in the Accelerated Dragon so I can appreciate its strength when it works. Your counterplay was unstoppable!
However, I don't usually play Re8. Is this to give the bishop the a8 square or to lessen the effect of Bg5? I mean, I don't think you plan on e5 and e6 is usually strange too because it weakens d6 even if it doesn't block the bishop.
1. It's about the only move left! 12..Qa5 sucks because of 13. Nd5, 12..a5 13. a4! and 12..b5 just loses a pawn!
2. Now a silly Nd5 tactic loses a lot of force since e7 is protected.
3. Like you mentioned, Black may have ..Bh8 in response to Bh6.
4. The rook might actually serve a useful purpose down the e-file at some point. The other dangerous plan in the Dragon is to play in the center with Rhe1, e5, Bg5, etc...Now if White plays e5, and has to take on d6 or f6, the rook will be unleashed.
5. The king can chicken out to f8 if necessary. (Thank god!)
6. Black waits for White to commit, making the argument that if white plays 12. Kb1, why can't I slightly improve my position too with 12..Re8 ?
Originally posted by tomtom232Yes, I meant h8 not a8. I suspected it was something like that. Is it just for that?
Re8 is to give the dragon h8 square I play it all the time because I don't know what to do when the other player plays Bh6 except to sac the exchange to keep the dragon bishop which I think is stronger than a rook in the opening.
2 edits
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Ah, yes it lessens any Nd5 ideas too and gives the flight square f8, which you actually used. Now this move really makes sense. After so many reasons, it is clear that it is a strong move (probably even best).
This ..Re8 idea was actually developed by some Dragon players after the routine 12..Nc4 started failing to 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4! There are many ideas with 12..Re8:
1. It's about the only move left! 12..Qa5 sucks because of 13. Nd5, 12..a5 13. a4! and 12..b5 just loses a pawn!
2. Now a silly Nd5 tactic loses a lot of force since e7 is protected.
3 ...[text shortened]... ument that if white plays 12. Kb1, why can't I slightly improve my position too with 12..Re8 ?
BTW: The previous post was started before yours so I didn't know you answered the question.
Originally posted by exigentskyYeah, it looks like a very amateurish Dragon move at first, but then once it's explained, it's like, "Oh, that's pretty sweet!". It's funny because normally ..Re8 is just too slow in the Dragon, but I play it against 12. Kb1, 13. Kb1, and 14. Kb1 in similar positions!
Ah, yes it lessens any Nd5 ideas too and gives the flight square f8, which you actually used. Now this moves really makes sense. After so many reasons, it is clear that it is a strong move.
BTW: The previous post was started before yours so I didn't know you answered the question.
I won't hold your in between post against you. Since you play some variation of the Dragon, you're on the cool list. 😀
Originally posted by !~TONY~!I looked at Qc7 too, but I discarded it on principle. It tries to solve the same problem but does not strive for the initiative as much as e6. Since initiative is such an important currency in most Sicilians, I wouldn't go for Qc7 when e6 is available. This is especially the case after playing Re8.
After looking at it again, here are some interesting ideas:
20..Qc7! when it's hard to see how White keeps the bishop. Maybe he can muddy the waters with some silly like 21. f4 Ng4 22. Bd2 e6 23. e5! intending 24. Bxb4!
Maybe 24..a3 was overkill. I didn't realize this at the time, but maybe it's just easier to play 24..axb3, since on 25. Nxb3 I have ...[text shortened]... 29. Rh2 (the only try!) Nxd3 30. Rxd3 Bxd4! 31. Rxd4 Rxc1+! 32. Kxc1 Qc3+ -+
Good times.
Moreover, Qc7 is concretely not as good. For example:
20. Bd5 Qc7 21. f4 Ng4 22. f5 gxf5 23. exf5 Black is just lost
You would have to play e6 anyway after f4.
So it would probably go something like this:
21. f4 e6 22. Rd2 Ng4 23. f5 exf5 24. exf5 Bxf5 25. Nxf5 gxf5 26. Bf4
But if you go backwards and reverse the order. Think if you would still play Qc7 immediately after e6 (ignoring immediate tactics).
I think your move was best.