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  1. 02 Jun '06 15:25
    Hi guys!

    I was recently reading the arguement that a king and bishop cannot checkmate a single king, etc. which I totally agree with.

    However, someone said that it may be possible with a pawn. Could someone please demonstrate this, possibly by a FEN?

    My next question... can this be done with TWO bishops? I am very tempted to guess that yes, it is possible, but, again, I am not sure.

    Next question! Is there a definite way of determining whether a game is winnable?

    From my knowledge, I know that these are possibilities of mate during an endgame:
    1.Two rooks (dead easy)
    2.Rook and queen (even easier)
    3.Queen and king (easy, but takes a bit of practice)
    4.Rook and king (can be done, but takes some time)
    5.King and pawn (force the queening of the pawn)
  2. 02 Jun '06 15:39
    Thanks a lot. I think I may have missed that post since I was just skimming through!
  3. 02 Jun '06 15:44
    king and pawn versus king leads to a draw if the opposing king is not in front of the pawn
  4. 02 Jun '06 16:59
    I saw a game in which a 1400 junior had Knight, Bishop and two pawns against a master's Knight and Bishop. Everyone gathered round sensing blood but I knew the master strength player and he was a fairly shrewd operator.

    He sacrificed the two pieces for the two pawns; anyone who knew this guy at all would know exactly what was coming, the junior didn't have a clue.

    Furthermore, he didn't have a clue how to checkmate with a knight and Bishop and consented to a draw.
  5. 02 Jun '06 17:10
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    How did the junior get to be material up against the master in the first place?
    He had been at a coaching session studying the Gruenfeld all weekend with a GM and a few IMs - guess what opening he got ...
  6. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    02 Jun '06 17:21
    Originally posted by General Putzer
    king and pawn versus king leads to a draw if the opposing king is not in front of the pawn
    wrong king, Putz.



    Draw, regardless of who is on move. See next post.
  7. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    02 Jun '06 17:22


    White wins, regardless of who is on move.
  8. 02 Jun '06 18:20
    I remember the above diagram from Josh's teaching session. He was trying to explain a method of 'escorting' a pawn up the board.
  9. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    02 Jun '06 18:56
    Originally posted by aommaster
    I remember the above diagram from Josh's teaching session. He was trying to explain a method of 'escorting' a pawn up the board.
    Good. Now, work this one out:

    White on move. Checkmate in three.

  10. 02 Jun '06 19:58
    Here's a Little Guide I've just wrote, hope it helps.

    minimum Material Required to mate against a lone king.

    B+B+K vs.K
    B+N+K vs.K (hard)
    Q+K vs. K
    R+K vs. K

    ^ all of these endgames can be performed from almost any postion on the board (provided the peices cannot be taken and you arn't careless enough to allow stalemate)


    K+P vs.K however is a lot more tricky, and not always winable.

    there are 3 things which decide if this is won or drawn

    1) who is to move
    2) position of BOTH KINGS
    3) position of the Pawn(s) *Rook pawns (a,h) especially.

    Imagine this position: - WK@c2, WP@f5, BK@c4

    If white is to move then White wins, the pawn will become a Queen and black can do nothing about it ...1-0.

    However, If it is black to move the game continues.

    1.Kd5 f6 2. Ke6 3. f7 Kxf7 1/2-1/2

    with black to move, he enters the "square of the pawn", which means he can chase and eventually capture it.

    _________________

    In simple K+P endgames there are always "key squares" which must be controled....

    if you are defending, then you must control the promotion square (*i.e being in front of it, or being close enough to capture) but also, you must prevent the enemy King from getting to key Squares.


    And now imagine this position : - WK@h6, WP@h5, BK@f6

    This postion is Drawn, no matter who is to move, Why? well the awnser is simple -- the Black King can control all the Key squares.


    If we first Imagine White to move...

    White's own King is in the way of the Pawn, which means in order to promote White King must first get out of the way

    In order to black to draw, all he has to do is keep the King on the H-file, which Black can do with ease.

    1. Kh7 Kf7

    ^ and there is no way white can get out of the way of his own pawn, because black controls all the escape squares (g6,g7,g8)


    And now if we Imagine Black to move.

    1.Kf7 Kg5

    Now White isn't in the way of his own pawm, however, it is still drawn, Why? Because black can still control all the important squares. (h8)

    2. Kg7 h6+ 3. Kh8 Kg6 4. Kg8 5. h7+ Kh8 1/2-1/2

    (white next move will either lose the pawn or leave black stalemated.)
  11. 02 Jun '06 22:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    wrong king, Putz.

    [fen]4k3/8/4P3/4K3/8/8/8/8[/fen]

    Draw, regardless of who is on move. See next post.
    you just showed a position which was EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, DUMBASS....if the king isn't in front of the pawn it's a draw.

    Try to understand what's being said before disagreeing, wulbgr...
  12. 02 Jun '06 22:20
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    [fen]4k3/8/4K3/4P3/8/8/8/8[/fen]

    White wins, regardless of who is on move.
    yes wulbgr that is exactly what i said earlier.....jebus this is like arguing with a small child
  13. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    03 Jun '06 15:59
    Originally posted by General Putzer
    yes wulbgr that is exactly what i said earlier.....jebus this is like arguing with a small child
    Originally posted by General Putzer
    king and pawn versus king leads to a draw if the opposing king is not in front of the pawn

    Which king is the opposing king?

    Normal logic, and the established practice of chess instruction, both indicate that the position is examined from the point of view of the superior side. Thus, the opposing king must be in front of the pawn to have hope of a draw.

    If, however, we accept the perverse logic of the General, we find that in cases that the superior side's king is not in front of the pawn would be drawn. In this assertion, the General is incorrect.

    White on move wins.
    Black on move draws.



    Alas, Putz, your illiteracy makes you unable to read your own statements. I'm sorry that your schooling was deficient, but even at your advanced age, it is possible to learn. Perhaps you could enroll in night school and take a course on basic English.
  14. 03 Jun '06 16:10 / 1 edit
    "king and pawn versus king leads to a draw if the opposing king is not in front of the pawn"

    wrong

    white to move and win