After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 ...
I am used to seeing White play 5.d4, but have had a few games recently where White moved 5.d3 instead. I see this as weak and respond (as Black) with 5. ... d5. Is this a mistake? If so, why? What would be better?
Also, if I respond more defensively (like O-O), White usually plays 6.b4 and I begin to feel like I'm on the run from this point on. Any suggestions?
Originally posted by dizzyfingersNormally d5 is good but in that line after 5...d5 6.exd5, Nxd5 7. Qb3 and black is in bad shape. It looks like 5...d6 is the main line and a6, 0-0 and Bb6 are the main alternatives. I usually play the 2 knights defense because I feel like I'm always defending if I play 3...Bc5. Black gets a good active game in the 2 knights.
After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 ...
I am used to seeing White play 5.d4, but have had a few games recently where White moved 5.d3 instead. I see this as weak and respond (as Black) with 5. ... d5. Is this a mistake? If so, why? What would be better?
Also, if I respond more defensively (like O-O), White usually plays 6.b4 and I begin to feel like I'm on the run from this point on. Any suggestions?
Originally posted by dizzyfingersActually, 5.d3 is not weak and is probably the main line at GM level. It's a very solid, strategic position in which White likely has a very small plus (less than in the Lopez). You really can't punish 5.d3 - you have a long, strategic game ahead of you in which you have to neutralize White's initiative before creating your own chances.
After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 ...
I am used to seeing White play 5.d4, but have had a few games recently where White moved 5.d3 instead. I see this as weak and respond (as Black) with 5. ... d5. Is this a mistake? If so, why? What would be better?
Also, if I respond more defensively (like O-O), White usually plays 6.b4 and I begin to feel like I'm on the run from this point on. Any suggestions?
The Two Knights is the other option after 3.Bc4. Black certainly gets counterplay, but I'm not convinced that placing a knight on the rim, giving myself two isolated pawns and going down in material is as strong as playing 3...Bc5. There are plenty of far better players than I who play the TKD, so to each his/her own!
Scott
Originally posted by dizzyfingersIf you don't want to be on the run, why not play 3...Nf6 4.Ng5...Bc5!? instead & prepare for blast-off 😀
After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 ...
I am used to seeing White play 5.d4, but have had a few games recently where White moved 5.d3 instead. I see this as weak and respond (as Black) with 5. ... d5. Is this a mistake? If so, why? What would be better?
Also, if I respond more defensively (like O-O), White usually plays 6.b4 and I begin to feel like I'm on the run from this point on. Any suggestions?
I wouldn't underestimate these slower d3 plans. There are some GM's such as Sergei Kudrin who make their living off these lines. It's very common to see these lines continue exactly like a Ruy Lopez. White will play moves like d3, c3, 0-0, Re1, h3, Ndb2-f1-g3, Bb3-c2, etc..., and eventually bust open the center with d4. Beware of playing ...d5 too early as Black, because you have to worry about the e-pawn becoming weak after Re1, Bb5, etc....
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Yes "beware of playing ...d5 too early" as I really like to play against opponents who does it 🙂
I wouldn't underestimate these slower d3 plans. There are some GM's such as Sergei Kudrin who make their living off these lines. It's very common to see these lines continue exactly like a Ruy Lopez. White will play moves like d3, c3, 0-0, Re1, h3, Ndb2-f1-g3, Bb3-c2, etc..., and eventually bust open the center with d4. Beware of playing ...d5 too early as Black, because you have to worry about the e-pawn becoming weak after Re1, Bb5, etc....
Originally posted by KorchI wish I knew that before our game 🙁
Yes [b]"beware of playing ...d5 too early" as I really like to play against opponents who does it 🙂[/b]
Game 4317776
Originally posted by najdorfslayerYou know - that was game in which I did feel very uncomfortable, due to my uncovered king.
I wish I knew that before our game 🙁
Game 4317776
Originally posted by KorchYeah it was a line that was recommended by Davies in Gambiteer II and its mentioned in Pinski's Two Knights book.
You know - that was game in which I did feel very uncomfortable, due to my uncovered king.
I thought it was worth a bash to liven it up but obviously I went wrong somewhere down the line. I don't think I made a big blunder in that game probably just lots of samll inaccurate moves that allowed you to take over the position.
It would be intersting to know where I could have improved on the position from my point of view.
Originally posted by najdorfslayerDuring the game it was hard to say. Needs to analyse very carefully with engine. But its definetly line which I dont want to repeat even in RHP (to say nothing more about OTB play).
Yeah it was a line that was recommended by Davies in Gambiteer II and its mentioned in Pinski's Two Knights book.
I thought it was worth a bash to liven it up but obviously I went wrong somewhere down the line. I don't think I made a big blunder in that game probably just lots of samll inaccurate moves that allowed you to take over the position.
...[text shortened]... would be intersting to know where I could have improved on the position from my point of view.
WOW! I didn't expect much response to my question, thinking, " Who wants to talk about Giuoco Piano?!? Thanks for everyone's input. I have started to think that 5. ... d5 is an impatient response for this opening and trying to stir the pot too early. SquelchBelch, I think my tendency is like yours - I want to see/make things start happening, but I think I'm learning that I should play a little more cautiously at this point in this opening as black, and it looks like your game with Korch reinforces that. Sounds like you enjoy playing each other, LOL.
A good way to live a safe life and avoid having to study a mountain of theory is to play the Hungarian Defense (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Be7). Unambitious, but solid. Black gets to castle quickly and doesn't have to worry about various sorties aimed at his f7 square. There aren't usually a lot of trades in the opening, so Black retains decent winning chances in a usually strategic game.
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI agree. I have been used Hungarian defence in OTB with good results.
A good way to live a safe life and avoid having to study a mountain of theory is to play the Hungarian Defense (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Be7). Unambitious, but solid. Black gets to castle quickly and doesn't have to worry about various sorties aimed at his f7 square. There aren't usually a lot of trades in the opening, so Black retains decent winning chances in a usually strategic game.