I would like to know, that what is the official rule in using computer to give you a list of certain moves. For example, I could ask computer to give me all the possible (legal) moves in certain position. Am I beaking the rules by doing that? Or, I could ask computer to give me all the variations, where my opponent king is checked in depth 4 (in 4 moves). So where is the limit?
I checked from the internet the official rules of correspondence chess, and in US rules, it says that you are not allowed to use computer to evalutate the position. But, what it exatcly mean to evalutate? I think, asking computer to find a mate move is evaluating, but how about for example asking computer to find all the move series that lead my knight to go to, say, square f5 in 6 moves? Computer does not need to calculate any evalution values to do it (it just needs to go through all the move variations to certain depth).
The definition of 'evaluate' is 'to determine the significance, worth, or condition of usually by careful appraisal and study' - in other words, it means to use a computer to determine how good/bad a particular move may be, and even of what the best move may be. Translation: You're using a computer to cheat, since real chess play is about you using your brain to evaluate such moves.
Having a computer simply list all of the available moves that any particular piece can make is not 'evaluating' really anything, because every chess player in existence pretty much does that on every move. You know when moving a bishop/etc to certain squares is 'bad', and of when certain moves are illegal. You don't need a PC to tell you these things, or if you do I would hope that you're using it to improve your game!
Having a computer blindly tell you every available move seems to hold little value, in my opinion. When I tested this feature out in Chessmaster, it did indeed give me every conceivable move that I could make - and almost all of them were bad. One particular move was listed as 'Queen pins knight' - well, yeah, it did pin the knight, but only until Black captured the Queen with a pawn instantly afterwards!
Originally posted by JuhaKYou can use a computer's database... you can't use the computers chess engine... doesn't matter if you are asking for your best move, their best move... or the worst move.
I would like to know, that what is the official rule in using computer to give you a list of certain moves. For example, I could ask computer to give me all the possible (legal) moves in certain position. Am I beaking the rules by doing that? Or, I could ask computer to give me all the variations, where my opponent king is checked in depth 4 (in 4 moves). So ...[text shortened]... valution values to do it (it just needs to go through all the move variations to certain depth).
No chess engines.
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If you have Chessmaster you can use the chess coach. Set up a game where you play both sides and analyze the game. This way the Chessmaster engine is not running and you have a database and all the possible moves listed. Just know one thing .A database does not tell you if the move is a blunder. If you can find the opening in the analyzed games; you can use that as well. You can only use the program's engine when your opponent agrees to allow its use.
Originally posted by gambit3I wish RHP's terms of service were more clear on this point. In fact, the terms simply prohibit use of an engine, period, with no question of an opponent's consent. I personally think the terms should be modified to specify that a) consulting a chess engine is forbidden under any circumstances for a rated game, and b) that consulting a chess engine is permitted for an unrated game only with the informed consent of the opponent.
You can only use the program's engine when your opponent agrees to allow its use.
I'd like to ask a slightly different question - what if, instead of using the computer to evaluate your own position, you played your side and allowed the computer to play in place of your opponent while offline? Would this violate the letter or spirit?
If yes, would it also be true that you could not perform the same activity with a human opponent sitting in while off-line?
Not trying to debate but to learn. Thanks
Originally posted by dcall2That is against the rules as well. You are using the computer to find good moves to have to contend with.
I'd like to ask a slightly different question - what if, instead of using the computer to evaluate your own position, you played your side and allowed the computer to play in place of your opponent while offline? Would this violate the letter or spirit?
If yes, would it also be true that you could not perform the same activity with a human opponent sitting in while off-line?
Not trying to debate but to learn. Thanks
Originally posted by ReelEmInReidYup, I already said that in a way if you look at my original post... no engines to find any moves.. yours or theirs.
That is against the rules as well. You are using the computer to find good moves to have to contend with.
Can't do it, wouldn't be prudent!
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Hmm,I don't feel that would be really cheating.What if I'm just playing my computer and the same position as I have in one of my games here arises.Do I have to quit the game?I don't think so.And what if this happens while playing against a human opponent?Quit the game again?No way!And what if that human player offers a post mortem analyses?Should I say: 'Nope,sorry,I have a corr game going with this position and that would be cheating'.You can call me a cheater if you want,but I don't see that happening.Besides,I prolly wouldn't even know that I have a game going here with the same position.
Now,if you would try out a position you have here on a computer to see which lines work best for you,that would be different.But it's a tricky issue.Where do you draw the line?Not so easy,me thinks.
Sir Lot.
Seems to me that when you use a book; you are getting aid from another source . That book is analyzed by a grand master such as GM Nunn. How is that not cheating. The rules do not cover you and a friend analyzing a game. Is that not cheating? A gm analyzed game is not cheating. A program analyzed game is cheating. Go figure. I bet on GM Nunn vs. a program in a e mail game. By the way all I have said is general and not red hot pawn specific.
Originally posted by PhlabibitHow do you feel about the followup question? Would playing a human foe, from a set position, be considered a violation of either spirit or law?
Yup, I already said that in a way if you look at my original post... no engines to find any moves.. yours or theirs.
Can't do it, wouldn't be prudent!
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