Originally posted by GMF in thread so who's used a chess computer to cheat? on subject of game analysis...
I would add that it's far better to analyze on your own before running it through a tactics cruncher. ...
My own process for game analysis when I have a game I really want to learn from:
1) Discuss game with opponent; write down their comments.
2) Try to capture in writing my own thought process from during the game.
(With a correspondence game, I generally reverse steps 1 and 2.)
3) Play through again, with the board flipped, doing my own, unassisted, detailed analysis.
4) Check early positions against a database and record how higher-rated players handled similar games.
5) Now run the chess engine, mostly double-checking for blunders missed during previous steps, and adjust the annotations as needed.
6) Find one or more stronger players to look at the game, along with the notes (sometimes just with the notes from step 2), and adjust annotations to reflect the conversation.
7) Once more from the top: play through the whole game, reading the annotations as if written by someone else; this is often best done after a good break in time.
In #4, I am pretty unfamiliar with databases. I got a copy of CBLight (ChessBase Light, freeware) but I don't use if for anything other than keeping a record of the games I have played here.
Could you please describe how you use databases?
After reading the preceding post I got a copy of cblight. I didn't appreciate what a computer database could do, a quick look reveals that it can switch instantly between various lines, never losing its way. For a player like me, with limited time/talent resources, it may be way too much information, but I bet GMs love them.
Originally posted by zucchiniAhem! Seek no more! CBLight? Once you download and start using SCID you will not go back to that piece of * BEEP! * Here is the website:
Originally posted by GMF in thread so who's used a chess computer to cheat? on subject of game analysis...
[b]I would add that it's far better to analyze on your own before running it through a tactics cruncher. ...
My own process for game analysis when I have a game I really want to learn from:
1) Discuss game with opponent; write down thei ...[text shortened]... a record of the games I have played here.
Could you please describe how you use databases?
http://scid.sourceforge.net/
In regards to databases I have crafted my own huge database in pgn format from numerous websites. It was a lot of work so I am selling it to whomever might be interested... Hey! Don't hate me for that! I am charging $10 + S&H
Anywho, I divided the whole monster by ECO codes A00-A99.pgn, B00-B99.pgn, etc. I have a separate DB with just correspondence games, another one with my openings. Some people recommend breaking the database into chronological chunks.
I have not tried the Chessbase products, but SCID is free, and it is really good.
It allows you to construct databases of games in any fashion you like (imports pgn files fairly easily), and it gives comprehensive reports about any position you happen to be studying (assuming it's been played before) - how the games typically ended, what moves have been tried, and what positional themes were present.
There is a learning curve, though, and no help desk, so you have to be willing to invest some effort in learning it.
To find games for your database, I suggest you start here:
http://www.chessville.com/downloads/misc_downloads.htm
As to how to use a database program, I know how _not_ to use it. If you use it as a substitute for thinking (as I often do) you'll lose (as I often do). But if you're wondering if a position has been played before and what people tried, a database is a wonderful tool for that.
OK let's see if I have this straight: You reach a stick point in a chess game and can't see a good move. You enter your game into your database and it finds the same position was reached by Kresge vs Woolworth in 1906. Woolworth played (eg) Qb6 and went on the win the game, so you play the same move. Your opponent is looking at the same game with his database, so he doesn't play Kresge's response, since that leads to a loss, he runs various responses through his database and it comes up with some move that led to a win in a game played in 1998. And so forth. Why not just connect the databases together and eliminate the middlemen?
Originally posted by KneverKnightBecause a game will reach a point that databases are no longer of any use.Then you must think for yourself.Itwould indeed be useless to do it this way,I know,I tried it myself.Result,I lose and learned nothing.
OK let's see if I have this straight: You reach a stick point in a chess game and can't see a good move. You enter your game into your database and it finds the same position was reached by Kresge vs Woolworth in 1906. Woolworth played (eg) Qb6 and went on the win the game, so you play the same move. Your opponent is looking at the same game with his ...[text shortened]... in 1998. And so forth. Why not just connect the databases together and eliminate the middlemen?
But this is not the way zucchini said he uses databases.I think he's talking about analying finished games.Regardless,his approach would also work for corr games in progress.
To answer his question: I use a database 'in game' on this site to find the first,say,10 moves if I'm unfamiliar with an opening.Then I go through a few games with different variations to see how the GM's play this,to figure out which line I like best and to try figure out what the ideas are for both sides.When I think I got the idea,I try to implement that in my own game while trying to prevent my oppo from carrying out his/hers.This way I learn how to play that line without getting killed in the opening time after time.It's one of the benefits of corr chess.
For analysing finished games: I analyse on my own,without any assistance,then check the opening with a book or database,then run it through fritz checking for missed tactics.Then go through the game again with the book and fritz' improvements.
More or less the same method as you.
Zucchini,you have an excellent method that should garantuee rapid improvement,IMO 🙂
Sir Lot.
I was being a bit facetious. Chess is complex enough that of course, all possible good games haven't been played before. I think that computer databases make the published past games more accessible to players; rather than laboriously searching through books, enter a position and viola, there's the "history" of that position. Big time-saver for corr. chess and for analysis post-game. Before I joined this site, I hadn't played for many years, this computer-aided playing is something new for me-pretty kewl it is.
Originally posted by SirLoseALotThanks for your suggestions.
..the way zucchini said he uses databases...
Just to give credit, this was GMF's procedure, not mine. But I am trying to adopt it. And I have been getting better as I slow down, analyze more, and review my games.
I do not use databases other than to store my games, and am wondering how else I can use them. I will try looking at positions.
For me, the point of using aids such as opening books, databases, endgame books, etc. is to learn and get better. I am using an opening book on almost every game I play here, and a few times I have looked up an endgame in a book.
Originally posted by KneverKnightIf you want original one-of-a-kind opening positions, I suggest (shameless plug) that you join the Hardcore Pawn Stars.
OK let's see if I have this straight: You reach a stick point in a chess game and can't see a good move. You enter your game into your database and it finds the same position was reached by Kresge vs Woolworth in 1906. Woolworth play ...[text shortened]... t just connect the databases together and eliminate the middlemen?
Originally posted by zucchiniSorry... There is no need to be terse...
It seems you only posted an advertisement and you didn't address my questions.
In your topic the question was:
"In #4, I am pretty unfamiliar with databases. I got a copy of CBLight (ChessBase Light, freeware) but I don't use if for anything other than keeping a record of the games I have played here.
Could you please describe how you use databases?"
#4 being: "4) Check early positions against a database and record how higher-rated players handled similar games."
And this was part of my answer:
"I divided the whole monster by ECO codes A00-A99.pgn, B00-B99.pgn, etc. I have a separate DB with just correspondence games, another one with my openings. Some people recommend breaking the database into chronological chunks."
I make no apologies for offering my database to whomever might be interested... And I did answered the question of how to manipulate databases into digestible chunks.
Godd day
hi zucchini,
I would like to help you with respect to your #4..using databases.
I will give it a technical taste.
Maintain separate databases (its better to use .cbh format)...say
1) Your email games
2) Large collection of games (you can get them from TWIC.com)
Only problem is that CBlight supports max of 7999 games..So if your database exceeds this limit, you can split into many parts.
3)Any other databases (say your favorite openings,players...etc) databases
Mark the database#2 as your 'Reference database' by right clicking the database icon and then 'properties'. (These options are available in CB6 and higher, I am not sure about CBlight)
Now whenever you start an email game, you can make a search for the games played in that particular opening through your Big database.
Doing this is simple, open up the board window of the game (your email game) that you want to search for. Then right click the board and choose option that might be similar to 'search in database'; this will search for all games in your reference database that resemble the position you are looking for. This is the basic type of searching. More advanced searches are also possible.
If you find this confusing, then simple way to find games matching the one that you are playing is by looking at the ECO code(Opening code).
Have a look at the ECO code of the game that you have stored in your email games database. Say it is something like B14. Then to search for games, right click the Big database (Reference db), choose search games.In the window that appears, enter B14 in both the boxes of field 'ECO' and hit OK. You will get all the related 'B14' games.Those games that are of interest can then be stored inRemember, your 'Big' database should be really BIG so that you dont get disappointed searching!
Hope I have not confused you.
Let me know if you have any doubt, I will be glad to help you out
Asim
🙂
Originally posted by asimpereiraI do that now, but find its time consuming to get these into the database.
Maintain separate databases (its better to use .cbh format)...say
1) Your email games
2) Large collection of games (you can get them from TWIC.com
Someone here on RHP recommended: http://chesslab.com/PositionSearch.html. This seems fine for my purposes, it apparently has a large database, and is free. This saves me the trouble of finding and managing databases.
3)Any other databases (say your favorite openings,players...etc) databases
I found some *.cbh databases for some of the game collection books I have. These have been invaluable, because I can't seem to replay a full game accurately!
Thanks for the advice. But I have tried looking up positions up several times now, but unless the game is in its first 10 moves or so, the database search doesn't find a match. It seems to me that databases aren't worth the trouble.
Is this what most of you experience?
Hi,
Searching will also fetch positions as far as move#20 IF you database contains millions of games just like mine!
in my case i regularly download files from TWIC, read the news etc and then merge the new downloaded games with the already existing Big database.
This is always handy for viewing and searching for games, OFFLINE.
For www.Chesslabs, you always need to be online.
Your own LARGE database will help you to also search position fragments (ie certain chunks of the board rather than the exact position). Then going through the games will help you check out how masters play in similar positions or what plans should you follow.
This is certainly not possible on chesslabs. This has certainly improved my middlegame as well.ONLY a LARGE base will help.
So you can improve both OPENING,MIDDLEGAME,ENDGAME
chesslabs can only help with the 1st phase
regards