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  1. 13 Feb '08 15:59
    I need an advice...from some stronger players...
    I will have a game this weekend against someone that uses some setup with:
    e4 Nc3 g3 Bg2 d3 Nge2 00 (and probably some h3 Kh2 f4 and attack on K side mainly)
    against black sicilian (c5)...

    I was thinking to play something with Nc6 d6 g6 Bg7 Nf6 (or e6 Ne7) 0-0 Rb8 b5 a5 and attack on Q side...I know that black should be at least equal, even white attack on K side looks more scarring...
    any advice ?
  2. 13 Feb '08 16:07
    I will let you in on the terrible secret about the closed Sicilian. It is completely ineffective against the French Defence set-up:

    1. e4 c5
    2. Nc3 e6
    3. g3 d5

    Black has a 57% record with this on chesslab.com (28% won for White, 42% won for Black, 30% drawn).
  3. 13 Feb '08 17:26
    I would play 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. d3 Nc6 6.
    Nge2 Nf6 7. O-O O-O

    Main idea here also fianchettoing yourself on the king side. The kingside bishop is hard to develop otherwise in a closed sicilian.

    The 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.exd5 exd5 is another way to do it. But it's not better for black like claimed above. It opens up the position. Something your opponent probably wants to avoid. So it's not a bad way to go either.
  4. 14 Feb '08 08:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    I will let you in on the terrible secret about the closed Sicilian. It is completely ineffective against the French Defence set-up:

    1. e4 c5
    2. Nc3 e6
    3. g3 d5

    Black has a 57% record with this on chesslab.com (28% won for White, 42% won for Black, 30% drawn).
    thx, but I checked some games with your line tonight and it somehow doesn't fit my style...too open and too many different lines, many tactics and less trategy with long term plans...
    I think I like more the one with Nc6 g6 Bg7 d6 e6 Nge7 0-0 and to throw Nd4...and maybe against f4-f5 to use f5, Rb8, b5, a5, etc...I am not sure if f5 can be played in the same time with Q side attack or it should come with play in the center...
  5. 14 Feb '08 08:42
    Originally posted by Prometheus4096
    I would play 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. d3 Nc6 6.
    Nge2 Nf6 7. O-O O-O

    Main idea here also fianchettoing yourself on the king side. The kingside bishop is hard to develop otherwise in a closed sicilian.

    The 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.exd5 exd5 is another way to do it. But it's not better for black like claimed above. It opens up t ...[text shortened]... position. Something your opponent probably wants to avoid. So it's not a bad way to go either.
    I would prefer to go Ne7 instead of Nf6 because I am afraid somehow of f4-f5...with e6 and Ne7 this is more difficult for white and I can throw in f5 faster sometimes
  6. 14 Feb '08 09:48
    Originally posted by vipiu
    I would prefer to go Ne7 instead of Nf6 because I am afraid somehow of f4-f5...with e6 and Ne7 this is more difficult for white and I can throw in f5 faster sometimes
    Make sure you go through a few games where White plays Bh6, castles long and plays h2-h4-h5. This can result in a very quick win for White if Black doesn't respond properly in time. Playing the White side, I recently lost to an early f6 by Black, with g5, Kh8 and Ng8, trapping my queen on h6!
  7. 14 Feb '08 11:10
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    I will let you in on the terrible secret about the closed Sicilian. It is completely ineffective against the French Defence set-up:

    1. e4 c5
    2. Nc3 e6
    3. g3 d5

    Black has a 57% record with this on chesslab.com (28% won for White, 42% won for Black, 30% drawn).
    Yes, but that's no good if you are, for example, a Najdorf or Dragon player. 3.Nf3!
  8. Subscriber davaniel
    1.Nf3
    14 Feb '08 11:20
    Originally posted by vipiu
    I need an advice...from some stronger players...
    I will have a game this weekend against someone that uses some setup with:
    e4 Nc3 g3 Bg2 d3 Nge2 00 (and probably some h3 Kh2 f4 and attack on K side mainly)
    against black sicilian (c5)...

    I was thinking to play something with Nc6 d6 g6 Bg7 Nf6 (or e6 Ne7) 0-0 Rb8 b5 a5 and attack on Q side...I know that black should be at least equal, even white attack on K side looks more scarring...
    any advice ?
    I actually played an OTB game 2 days ago as black where my opponent played along the lines you describe. Although he probably didn't play the strongest moves, neither of us made horrible mistakes in the opening and I got out of the opening with a very convenient position. It went like this:

    1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 Nf6 5. Nge2 d5 6. exd5 exd5 7. d4 Bg4 8. 0-0 Ne4 10. Bxe4 dxe4 11. Qxd8+ Rxd8 12. Nxe4 Bxe2 13. Re1 Nd4 14. Bg5 Be7 15. Bxe7 Kxe7 16. Nc3 Nf3+ 17. Kg2 Nxe1+ 18. Rxe1 Rhe8 19. Rxe2+ Kf8 20. Kf3 Rxe2 21. Kxe2 and I won the endgame.
  9. 14 Feb '08 12:24
    Originally posted by Northern Lad
    Yes, but that's no good if you are, for example, a Najdorf or Dragon player. 3.Nf3!
    I used to play online Sveshnikov...I gave it up for French because of OTB blitz games where very few opponents were playing main lines with Nf3 d4 in Sicilian and I was faced with different closed Sicilian setups when it is difficult to find a correct plan for black in short time...
    Nowadays, I started to play again Sicilian especially against players that are not going to open the game as I got better in strategy (from my KID games against d4)...and it is easier to play for win(especially against someone that plays exchange French which is very drawish)
    Also most of the guys that play closed setups of Sicilians usually goes on the same lines and the preparation is easy...
  10. 14 Feb '08 12:25
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    Make sure you go through a few games where White plays Bh6, castles long and plays h2-h4-h5. This can result in a very quick win for White if Black doesn't respond properly in time. Playing the White side, I recently lost to an early f6 by Black, with g5, Kh8 and Ng8, trapping my queen on h6!
    hmm, I saw that he does not play 0-0-0 in his 2 closed Sicilian games...but it is good to know this idea with Bxh6 f6 and g5 on h5
    10x
  11. 14 Feb '08 12:28
    Originally posted by davaniel
    I actually played an OTB game 2 days ago as black where my opponent played along the lines you describe. Although he probably didn't play the strongest moves, neither of us made horrible mistakes in the opening and I got out of the opening with a very convenient position. It went like this:

    1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 Nf6 5. Nge2 d5 6. exd5 exd5 ...[text shortened]... Nc3 Nf3+ 17. Kg2 Nxe1+ 18. Rxe1 Rhe8 19. Rxe2+ Kf8 20. Kf3 Rxe2 21. Kxe2 and I won the endgame.
    there is some posibility for black to get an isolated pawn in this line...is it enough compensation for this ?
  12. 14 Feb '08 13:15
    Originally posted by vipiu
    I used to play online Sveshnikov...I gave it up for French because of OTB blitz games where very few opponents were playing main lines with Nf3 d4 in Sicilian and I was faced with different closed Sicilian setups when it is difficult to find a correct plan for black in short time...
    Nowadays, I started to play again Sicilian especially against players that ar ...[text shortened]... at play closed setups of Sicilians usually goes on the same lines and the preparation is easy...
    The point I was trying to make before is that some players try to trick their opponents by playing 2.Nc3. They have no real intention of playing the Closed Sicilian but hope their opponents will play a second move that doesn't fit in with their normal Sicilian. I do this myself occasionally.
  13. 14 Feb '08 13:21
    Originally posted by Northern Lad
    The point I was trying to make before is that some players try to trick their opponents by playing 2.Nc3. They have no real intention of playing the Closed Sicilian but hope their opponents will play a second move that doesn't fit in with their normal Sicilian. I do this myself occasionally.
    I hope my opponent is not reading this
  14. 14 Feb '08 14:54
    Originally posted by vipiu
    I would prefer to go Ne7 instead of Nf6 because I am afraid somehow of f4-f5...with e6 and Ne7 this is more difficult for white and I can throw in f5 faster sometimes
    Hmm, you are right. His Ng2e seems to indicate he wants to push the f-pawn.
  15. 17 Feb '08 10:50
    I drew after I totally strategically missplayed the opening-middlegame transition...
    I've got a lucky draw because he simplified the game instead of fighting for a win.