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Game 1440193
where did i go wrong? was it 12. c4? or are there problems i can't see from earlier?
additionally- what are some strategies for playing in closed positions?
any comments are appreciated. thanks in advance.
Originally posted by Darth SpongeIn playing someone 1000 points higher rated. Duh! 😵
Game 1440193
where did i go wrong?
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Originally posted by fierytormentLooking through my edition of MCO-14 just in the footnotes the following players have games where they played the Advance Variation against the Caro-Kann:
e5 was definitely the first mistake against the Caro-Kahn. I concur with sundown on this one
Short
Benjamin
Anand
Nunn
Sutovsky
Svidler
Ivanchuk
Topalov
Tal
Spassky
I'm sure a casual look at any decent database would find many other top flight GM's making the same "mistake". It is amazing what getting a decent rating on an internet chess site with questionable quality controls can do to some people's egos.
EDIT: Here's a couple of games by some other clown using the Advance Variation
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1211232
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1254275
EDIT: And here's a moron using it in a World Championship match in a game he had to win to retain his title. What an idiot!!
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1311652
Originally posted by no1maraudere5 is definitely unsound, since also Morozevich plays it. 😉
Looking through my edition of MCO-14 just in the footnotes the following players have games where they played the Advance Variation against the Caro-Kann:
Short
Benjamin
Anand
Nunn
Sutovsky
Svidler
Ivanchuk
Topalov
Tal
Spassky
I'm sure a casual look at any decent database would find many other top flight GM's making the same "mi ...[text shortened]... win to retain his title. What an idiot!!
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1311652
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Its common in french advanced to trade off light square bishop .. for black as it's considered a bad bishop.. so if playing white.. it's best to try and hold onto light bishop..
I just about won this game and sure black had winning end game at one point.. but I was lucky And offered a pawn for couterplay move 34w (im sure this is move that cost him win from end game) I dunno..
But move 4w is the 1st move I make to advoid light bishop trade off.
Game 1311038
I also make use of opposing force in end game 😉
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I'm not a theory-heavy player, but I think you did really well against an Illuminati-type player like Meman: up until move 15-17, if I hadn't known which was the 1300-rated and which was the 2300-rated, I wouldn't have been able to guess which was which. I'm not keen on move 17 and it certainly isn't something I would play, but I wouldn't be so rash as to call it a mistake, you clearly have your own style.
Originally posted by fierytormentYou could make the first statement about ANY opening. In the databases I use, 3 e5 has the highest % of wins against the Caro-Kann of the three main variations (played over 95% of the time) 3 Nce or Nd2 (which are the same thing since Black almost always plays 3 .... dxe4 against Nd2) and 3 exd5 the Panov-Botvinnik Attack. The average players on this site are playing other average players, so your argument fails because the strong GM's mentioned are playing the Advance Variation against the same caliber of competition just like someone who plays 3 e5 here. Personally, I don't care for 3 e5 (I've never liked setups which can lead to locked pawn structures so early), but that is a personal preference; I wouldn't be so arrogant as to label one of the accepted main lines against a standard opening as a "mistake".
In response to number 1, yes it is playable, but look @ who you are talking about! geez, we are just ave. guys playing on a chess site. Those guys know the business and the lines to make e5 work for them. However, since most people are not at that level, I still consider e5 a inferior move.
Originally posted by no1marauderJust because a GM plays a variation does not give that line instant credibility. IMNSHO the Advance line is poor for White for many reasons:it releases the central tension too soon,it gives black free and easy development,and also gives him the possibility of a quick c6-c5 break,opening up the c-file for his rook,and leaving White with a backward,and sometimes isolated d pawn. My own win rate,as Black, vs. this crap is around 70%,which is positively obscene.
Looking through my edition of MCO-14 just in the footnotes the following players have games where they played the Advance Variation against the Caro-Kann:
Short
Benjamin
Anand
Nunn
Sutovsky
Svidler
Ivanchuk
Topalov
Tal
Spassky
I'm sure a casual look at any decent database would find many other top flight GM's making the same "mi ...[text shortened]... win to retain his title. What an idiot!!
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1311652
Originally posted by sundown316Since the Advance Variation has been played extensively in GM games for about a century (and was a major weapon used by Tal in his first match with Botvinnik 45 years ago), it's credibility is hardly "instant". Has pointed out above, this "poor" line has the highest winning percentage against the Caro-Kann in the large online databases. As for your specific objections, I would agree with no1, say that Black gets pretty free and easy development in almost all lines of the Caro-Kann and if Black was sooooooooo worried about a c5 break and a Rook on c8 he'd play the Sicilian. In short, your assertions are purely dogmatic based on your own personal preferences that other players don't share, so telling a player that a standard third move caused him to lose a game is absurd.
Just because a GM plays a variation does not give that line instant credibility. IMNSHO the Advance line is poor for White for many reasons:it releases the central tension too soon,it gives black free and easy development,and also gives him the possibility of a quick c6-c5 break,opening up the c-file for his rook,and leaving White with a backward,and som ...[text shortened]... lated d pawn. My own win rate,as Black, vs. this crap is around 70%,which is positively obscene.
Originally posted by AmauroteI don't think e5 is wrong - I play because it takes better advantage of the centre. I saw a game today in which Meman was more that happy to play it. Maybe it gets punished at GM level, but from where we stand. well ... punish me.
I'm not a theory-heavy player, but I think you did really well against an Illuminati-type player like Meman: up until move 15-17, if I hadn't known which was the 1300-rated and which was the 2300-rated, I wouldn't have been able to guess which was which. I'm not keen on move 17 and it certainly isn't something I would play, but I wouldn't be so rash as to call it a mistake, you clearly have your own style.