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  1. 10 Oct '07 19:58
    I saw this posted elsewhere and it wasn't answered. Though not the original poster, I thought it was interesting and decided to repost it here to see what kind of response it gets. Feel free to post evaluations by Fritz or other strong engines, too.

    Who is winning after:

    1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.o-o Nxb5 6.Nxb5 d6 7.d4 b6? 8.Bf4? Ba6? 9.Qd3 cxd4 10.Nfxd4 e5 11.Qc4 Bxb5
  2. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    10 Oct '07 20:00
    Originally posted by Mark Adkins
    I saw this posted elsewhere and it wasn't answered. Though not the original poster, I thought it was interesting and decided to repost it here to see what kind of response it gets. Feel free to post evaluations by Fritz or other strong engines, too.

    Who is winning after:

    1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.o-o Nxb5 6.Nxb5 d6 7.d4 b6? 8.Bf4? Ba6? 9.Qd3 cxd4 10.Nfxd4 e5 11.Qc4 Bxb5
    There are definitely better moves for both sides....

    however, given the moves you've shown, it looks about equal.
  3. 10 Oct '07 20:25
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    There are definitely better moves for both sides....

    however, given the moves you've shown, it looks about equal.
    I don't know if that assessment of the position is supposed to be based on a quick eyeballing by you, a thorough analysis by you, or a chess engine you used. Please specify. (As for the moves, you're right, they're crap, but I'm really trying to evaluate the soundness of ignoring the pawn-fork due to the notion that 11.Qc4 makes it irrelevant.)
  4. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    10 Oct '07 20:28
    Originally posted by Mark Adkins
    I don't know if that assessment of the position is supposed to be based on a quick eyeballing by you, a thorough analysis by you, or a chess engine you used. Please specify. (As for the moves, you're right, they're crap, but I'm really trying to evaluate the soundness of ignoring the pawn-fork due to the notion that 11.Qc4 makes it irrelevant.)
    When the message was made, I had run my computer on it for about 5 minutes, and analyzed it personally for 2 or 3 minutes.

    It's not the best way to play that opening... not even close, but from a strictly analytical position, the game is even enough that with perfect play it should draw.
  5. 10 Oct '07 20:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    When the message was made, I had run my computer on it for about 5 minutes, and analyzed it personally for 2 or 3 minutes.

    It's not the best way to play that opening... not even close, but from a strictly analytical position, the game is even enough that with perfect play it should draw.
    Thanks for the clarification. By the way, what software are you using to evaluate it?

    (Note: the move sequence doesn't come from any game on RHP or any ongoing game. According to the original poster, it came from a chess book whose author was making an academic point; the author is a chess writer and most of the moves originated in a student game. The writer suggested that White was wrong to be afraid of the pawn fork and offered an alternative line of play (which I reproduced here) from the ninth move onward.)
  6. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    10 Oct '07 20:45
    Originally posted by Mark Adkins
    Thanks for the clarification. By the way, what software are you using to evaluate it?

    (Note: the move sequence doesn't come from any game on RHP or any ongoing game. According to the original poster, it came from a chess book whose author was making an academic point; the author is a chess writer and most of the moves originated in a student game.)
    Crafty.
  7. 10 Oct '07 21:14
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    When the message was made, I had run my computer on it for about 5 minutes, and analyzed it personally for 2 or 3 minutes.

    It's not the best way to play that opening... not even close, but from a strictly analytical position, the game is even enough that with perfect play it should draw.
    I'd like to see some variations, my Fritz 9 begs to differ: it gives white a winning advantage (+1.50).
  8. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    10 Oct '07 21:21
    12. Nxb5, Rc8
    13. Qa4, Qd7
    14. Be3, Nf6
    15. f3, Be7
    16. Rac1, 0-0
    17. Qxa7, Qxb5
    18. Qxe7, Rfd8

    ... Crafty 19.01 now gives white a slight, though not winning advantage. 0.3/pawn.
  9. 11 Oct '07 07:34
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    12. Nxb5, Rc8
    13. Qa4, Qd7
    14. Be3, Nf6
    15. f3, Be7
    16. Rac1, 0-0
    17. Qxa7, Qxb5
    18. Qxe7, Rfd8

    ... Crafty 19.01 now gives white a slight, though not winning advantage. 0.3/pawn.
    Fritz does not like 17. Qxa7 (+0.4) and wants to play 17. c4 (+1.2). But I think the position is very complicated and even fiddling around with the pieces a bit I only see good positions for white but it doesn't really flesh out. Haven't got the time to really dig deep into it, but I'm not convinced this should be a draw with best play from both sides.
  10. 11 Oct '07 23:25
    Originally posted by zzyw
    Fritz does not like 17. Qxa7 (+0.4) and wants to play 17. c4 (+1.2). But I think the position is very complicated and even fiddling around with the pieces a bit I only see good positions for white but it doesn't really flesh out. Haven't got the time to really dig deep into it, but I'm not convinced this should be a draw with best play from both sides.
    What does Fritz 9 (and Crafty) say about 12.Nxb5 exf4 both in terms of point evaluation and variations?
  11. 14 Oct '07 09:09
    Originally posted by Mark Adkins
    What does Fritz 9 (and Crafty) say about 12.Nxb5 exf4 both in terms of point evaluation and variations?
    13. Qc6+ Ke7 14. Nxd6 Qxd6 15. Qxa8 and Fritz gives white +1.8
  12. 17 Oct '07 01:43
    Originally posted by zzyw
    13. Qc6+ Ke7 14. Nxd6 Qxd6 15. Qxa8 and Fritz gives white +1.8
    14...Qxd6 loses material. What does Fritz 9 et al. say about 14...Nh6 ?

    Thanks.
  13. 17 Oct '07 06:19
    14. Nxd6 Nh6 15. Rad1!, threatening 16. Nf5+ Nxf5 17. exf5 and 18. Rfe1 and mate. Black must lose material to avoid mate, "best" according to Fritz is 15... g6 16. Nf5+ gxf5 17. Rxd8 Rxd8 18. Qc7+ Ke8 19. Qe5+ and white wins h8.

    15. Nf5+ Nxf5 16. exf5 wins as well as black can only hold off mate by 16... Qd6, hanging a8.