[Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2013.03.02"] [Round "-"] [White "robbie carrobie"] [Black "ViA"] [Result "1-0"] [BlackElo "1861"] [WhiteElo "1829"] [BlackRating "1861"] [EndDate "2013.06.28"] [WhiteRating "1829"] 1.c4 e5 {interesting choice and probably the most principled move} 2.g3 {the main line is Nc3 but in order to cut out lots of theory we simply play on the light squares in the centre.} g6 {another interesting move, probably we shall head to Botvinnic system, with closed centre and play on the wings, which is fine as I have a cunning plan prepared} 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.Nc3 {emphasising light squared control} Nf6 5.e4 {and there it is, Botvinnic system, iron grip on the d5 square at the cost of giving up a little control of d4} O-O 6.Ng1e2 {facilitates the advance of the f pawn if necessary} d6 7.O-O Be6 {interesting choice, sometimes the bishop comes to g4 where it just gets kicked, the idea might be to play Qd7, exchange light squared bishops and storm whites king-side, the f6 knight is somewhat misplaced for this though as it blocks the f pawn.} 8.d3 Nb8d7 9.b4 {no c5 square for you my trusty steed!} a6 10.Rb1 Qc8 11.Nd5 {and this was my plan from the beginning, to create a half open c file with play against the backward c pawn.} Bxd5 12.cxd5 {oh that juicy half open file, Silman all your teaching was not in vain!} h6 13.h3 {I want to develop my bishop but i dont want it kicked by the knight, so I prepare its placement} Nh7 14.Be3 Nd7f6 {that was a surprise, i thought ...f5 was on the cards, oh well, what do i know} 15.Rc1 {muhaha, little pawn, little pawn, come out to play} Qd7 16.a4 Ne8 {its always good when your opponent is tied down to defending his pawns} 17.Qd2 h5 18.Nc3 Rc8 19.b5 c5 {ohhhh, dudes asking for it, ok 007, I'm going in!} 20.dxc6 bxc6 21.bxa6 Ra8 22.a7 c5 23.Nb5 {and here there is a tactic my amigos, see if you can spot it} Nc7 24.Nxd6 Qxd6 25.Bxc5 Qa6 26.Bxf8 Nxf8 27.Rxc7 {and we get our piece back with interest} Qxa4 28.Qe3 Ne6 29.Rb7 Bf8 30.Qf3 Nd8 31.Rb8 {probably not best, I was really sad when my little pawn so close to greatness, was gobbled up by that fire breathing dusky maiden} Qxa7 32.Rxa8 Qxa8 33.Qf6 Bg7 34.Qd6 Ne6 35.Rb1 Kh7 {mobility is everything, I also need to try to get rid of my long term weaknesses} 36.Qe7 Kg8 37.Rb7 Qf8 38.Qxf8 Kxf8 39.Rb8 Ke7 40.Rb7 Ke8 41.h4 Nc5 42.Rb8 Ke7 43.Bf1 Ne6 44.Rb7 Ke8 45.Be2 Bf6 46.Kg2 Nd4 47.Bd1 Kf8 48.Bb3 {and the bishop is significantly improved} Be7 49.f4 exf4 50.gxf4 Nxb3 51.Rxb3 Bxh4 {it was worth giving up the pawn} 52.Rb7 Be1 53.d4 Bd2 54.Kf3 Ba5 55.e5 Ke8 56.d5 Bc3 57.d6 Ba5 58.Re7 Kf8 59.Ra7 Bb6 60.Rb7 Ba5 61.Rb8 {and the king is forced backwards} Kg7 62.d7 {and here the game ended, a rather strategic affair which was somewhat pleasing for i had been beaten badly in our previous game. My opponent Via from Norway is a gentleman and very tough opponent, thanks for taking the time} 1-0
Originally posted by Fat Lady 25. ... Qa6 was horrible. What if he played, say, 25. ... Qd7 instead. Isn't White just material down then?
maybe, I have not checked it, probably it was risky, but i think i get at least two pawns and the exchange, is that not correct? I am sure i was thinking something like that when i was calculating the variations in damage control mode. I give up two minor pieces and get a rook and two pawns, is that not the case at very least?
Originally posted by MontyMoose Good job with the notes, they really help as I go through the game. Thanks.
they could have been deeper, but its hard to get a balance, no one wants to read reams of engine analysis and as i dont analyse my games with an engine i suspect they lack accuracy, but its a small price to pay. Thanks moose.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie [pgn][Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2013.03.02"] [Round "-"] [White "robbie carrobie"] [Black "ViA"] [Result "1-0"] [BlackElo "1861"] [WhiteElo "1829"] [BlackRating "1861"] [EndDate "2013.06.28"] [WhiteRating "1829"] 1.c4 e5 {interesting choice and probably the most principled move} 2.g3 {the main line is Nc3 bu tleman and very tough opponent, thanks for taking the time} 1-0[/pgn]
You played a pretty good game, but along with the other posters I would like to make a few comments from my observation if you don't mind.
[Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2013.03.02"] [Round "-"] [White "robbie carrobie"] [Black "ViA"] [Result "1-0"] [BlackElo "1861"] [WhiteElo "1829"] [BlackRating "1861"] [EndDate "2013.06.28"] [WhiteRating "1829"] 1.c4 e5 2.g3 g6 {Black should develope his knights for he already has an avenue for his bishop} 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.e4 {I fail to see why you think this Botvinnic system is so good} O-O 6.Ng1e2 d6 7.O-O Be6 8.d3 Nb8d7 {Here 8...c6 contesting the iron-clad control of d5 by White and opening up the possibility of 9...Qb3+ and 10...Ng4 in case of 9.f4 is better} 9.b4 {I don't think Black was planning 9...Nc5 because it could be driven away with 10.b4, so 9.f4 or 9.b3 is probably better} a6 10.Rb1 Qc8 {I see no purpose in this move, Black should begin an attack on the gueenside with 10...b5} 11.Nd5 Bxd5 {Not good. Black should have just played 11.Re8 or admit his previous move was no good and move his queen back to d8 to guard against the knight fork} 12.cxd5 h6 {This move does not help. I think I would try 12...c6 which should have been played on move 8} 13.h3 Nh7 {This is another useless move. I again would try 13...c6 or maybe even c5} 14.Be3 Nd7f6 {Black's vacates the d7 square so he can get his queen off the back rank and connect his rooks} 15.Rc1 Qd7 16.a4 Ne8 {I was expecting maybe 16...Rfc1 to defend the pawn, but instead he blocks the connection with his rooks} 17.Qd2 h5 {Why he didn't just play 17...Qxa4 is a puzzle} 18.Nc3 Rc8 19.b5 c5 {Black was acting out of desperation with this move, 19.axb5 was probably better} 20.dxc6 bxc6 21.bxa6 {Although this does win a pawn and creates a passed pawn, it is a double isolated rook pawn that can be blocked and attacked. So probably better is 21.b6} Ra8 22.a7 c5 23.Nb5 {Instead of giving up the pawn and playing the safe and probably winning 23.Nd5, White thinks he sees a winning tactcic} Nc7 24.Nxd6 Qxd6 25.Bxc5 Qa6 {This is the big blunder that loses a knight and the game for Black, 25.Qd7 was the best move} 26.Bxf8 Nxf8 27.Rxc7 Qxa4 28.Qe3 Ne6 29.Rb7 Bf8 30.Qf3 {White is hoping for a quick checkmate, but Black has other ideas} Nd8 31.Rb8 {White has nothing better and must give up the passed pawn} Qxa7 32.Rxa8 Qxa8 33.Qf6 Bg7 34.Qd6 Ne6 35.Rb1 Kh7 36.Qe7 Kg8 37.Rb7 Qf8 38.Qxf8 Kxf8 39.Rb8 Ke7 40.Rb7 Ke8 41.h4 Nc5 42.Rb8 Ke7 43.Bf1 Ne6 44.Rb7 Ke8 45.Be2 Bf6 46.Kg2 Nd4 47.Bd1 Kf8 48.Bb3 Be7 49.f4 exf4 50.gxf4 Nxb3 51.Rxb3 Bxh4 52.Rb7 Be1 53.d4 Bd2 54.Kf3 Ba5 55.e5 Ke8 56.d5 Bc3 57.d6 Ba5 58.Re7 Kf8 59.Ra7 Bb6 60.Rb7 Ba5 61.Rb8 Kg7 62.d7 {and here the game ended} 1-0
Originally posted by robbie carrobie maybe, I have not checked it, probably it was risky, but i think i get at least two pawns and the exchange, is that not correct? I am sure i was thinking something like that when i was calculating the variations in damage control mode. I give up two minor pieces and get a rook and two pawns, is that not the case at very least?
Well the two pawns advantage are double isolated rook pawns that are blocked and will be easy to attack. In fact the a7 pawn is about to fall, so I don't think you would have enough of an advantage to win without that mistake that gave up the knight.
Originally posted by RJHinds Well the two pawns advantage are double isolated rook pawns that are blocked and will be easy to attack. In fact the a7 pawn is about to fall, so I don't think you would have enough of an advantage to win without that mistake that gave up the knight.
The Instructor
why must you subject me to inane drivel? is there not some other fellow that you can inflict yourself upon? If i had wanted engine analysis i would have downloaded one and used it, statements like, 'i fail to see why the Botvinnic system is so good', or 'black already has an avenue for his bishop therefore he should develop his knight instead', betray a lack of understanding of basic fundamentals, you really dont know anything about chess and please stop trying to pretend that you do.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie why must you subject me to inane drivel? is there not some other fellow that you can inflict yourself upon? If i had wanted engine analysis i would have downloaded one and used it, statements like, 'i fail to see why the Botvinnic system is so good', or 'black already has an avenue for his bishop therefore he should develop his knight instead', bet ...[text shortened]... ls, you really dont know anything about chess and please stop trying to pretend that you do.
I have to admit, I wondered about his statement about the Botvinnik system on move 5. Acting as though "If I don't understand it, it must be dumb" and claiming a lack of understanding in a way that implies it is the other person's problem is an unholy blend of arrogance and ignorance.
World Champion Botvinnik understood it's value, and a host of GMs after him understand its value, so if he lacks understanding, there are plenty of quality examples over the last 50 years from which to choose.
Technically, only the first four words of his sentence are an accurate evaluation of the situation.
Originally posted by Paul Leggett I have to admit, I wondered about his statement about the Botvinnik system on move 5. Acting as though "If I don't understand it, it must be dumb" and claiming a lack of understanding in a way that implies it is the other person's problem is an unholy blend of arrogance and ignorance.
World Champion Botvinnik understood it's value, and a hos ...[text shortened]... lly, only the first four words of his sentence are an accurate evaluation of the situation.
You are right that I do not understand any advantage the Botvinnik system gives White. I know robbie said he was concentrating on control of the d5 square. But I informed him that c6 for black at the right time would stop that. So it looks to me like it is easy for Black to get equality in that system. But I am no Botvinnik and neither is robbie.
Of course robbie already told me of his plan as I was looking at the game, so I might not have been looking to stop his plan, if I had not known about it. And Botvinnik may have other things in mind if that does not work that I would not know to look out for.
I said I thought he played a good game and did not mean to down him for using that system. I was just trying to make some helpful comments. I would like to find why he likes it other than he just happened to win that game. I might even try it if I could understand how it is good. I don't want to have to be as good as Botvinnik to be successful with it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie why must you subject me to inane drivel? is there not some other fellow that you can inflict yourself upon? If i had wanted engine analysis i would have downloaded one and used it, statements like, 'i fail to see why the Botvinnic system is so good', or 'black already has an avenue for his bishop therefore he should develop his knight instead', bet ...[text shortened]... ls, you really dont know anything about chess and please stop trying to pretend that you do.
Well, I learned the classical rules of chess and it seems that g6 was a violation of a rule by moving a side pawn when a developing move can be made. I am not quite up on all the hyper-modern defenses or whatever they are called. The bishop became committed to move to g7 to protect those weakness made by g6. So it looked to me that developing the knights made more sense. But whatever, Dude.
Originally posted by RJHinds You are right that I do not understand any advantage the Botvinnik system gives White. I know robbie said he was concentrating on control of the d5 square. But I informed him that c6 for black at the right time would stop that. So it looks to me like it is easy for Black to get equality in that system. But I am no Botvinnik and neither is robbie.
Of c ...[text shortened]... d. I don't want to have to be as good as Botvinnik to be successful with it.
Hmm what about 8...Nc6 to prevent 9. b4? From my experience, if I'm playing KID, the habit is to play Nc6 all the time. Is that a bad idea in this position(routine habit, I guess).
Originally posted by hamworld Hmm what about 8...Nc6 to prevent 9. b4? From my experience, if I'm playing KID, the habit is to play Nc6 all the time. Is that a bad idea in this position(routine habit, I guess).
I think 8...Nc6 can be played, but from what robbie has said, the idea of this Botvinnik system in this KID fianchetto English opening is to gain control of the d5 square to place his Knight and if captured with a piece he recaptures with the bishop pawn and creates a juicy half open file for a rook to use to put pressure on blacks position. So by playing 8...Nbd7 if 9.Nd5 then 9...c6 immediately drives the knight away and if 10.Nxf6 Nxf6 and Blacks position is good. However in this game Black never played c6 anyway.
annotated game
28 Jun '13 16:052 edits
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