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  1. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    06 Sep '12 03:32 / 2 edits
    I found information on the current USCF Rules on Tournament Play and I copied and pasted the relevant parts to who wins when the time has expired. I think it is confusing the way it is worded. For it first states that a player wins on time when his or her opponent flag falls, or if using a digital clock, when the clock reads zero or –1.

    But then it states requirements and exceptions to the time rule. After carefully reading it, I have to apologize to greenpawn because due to the exceptions, it appears he is right and I am wrong in the case he cited with K + Q vs K, because an exception comes under the heading 3c. Insufficient mating material, in which the person with the K + Q can claim a draw based on insufficient mating material by his opponent before or after he runs out of time. I thought once he had run out of time that was it.


    Draws

    A game can also end in a draw. Nobody wins or loses, and each player gets ½ a point. There are many paths that end in a draw.
    1. Agreement- both players agree that the game is likely to be a draw.
    2. Insufficient mating material. (Don't ever use this phrase on a date!)
    3. Stalemate
    4. Three move repetition
    5. Both players run out of time
    6. 50 Move rule

    Draw #5- Double Time Forfeit
    If both players run out of time, it's a draw. If both players have run out of time, but there's checkmate on the board, the checkmater wins the game. Position takes precedence over the clock.

    1 . The clock

    1c. Winning on time-
    A player wins on time when his or her opponent flag falls, or if using a digital clock, when the clock reads zero or –1.

    However, the winning player must claim this victory before his own flag falls or he is checkmated. In the first case, the game is determined a draw. In the second case, checkmate overrules the fallen flag and the checkmater wins.

    Remember: A spectator or a T.D is not allowed to call the flag. (This confuses many foreign opponents, because in the official rules of FIDE, the international chess federation, a T.D is permitted to call "time." )

    3. Claiming draws

    3c. Insufficient mating material
    Call a tournament director over before or after your flag falls to claim this draw. If a player wins on time, but has insufficient mating material, the game will be recorded as a draw.


    3d. Insufficient winning chances
    When a player is low on time, but has a completely winning game, he or she can try to claim a draw by asserting that the opponent has insufficient winning chances. Nowadays, most Tournament Directors refrain from making such high stake decisions and instead give the players a digital clock and allow them to decide the result by using an increment or time-delay, usually five seconds. As long as the player completes each move within five seconds, was low on time can win if her opponent refuses the draw and insists on playing it out with the digital clock.
  2. 06 Sep '12 03:53
    There must be some funny stories coming out of some of those rules.
  3. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    06 Sep '12 04:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by SmittyTime
    There must be some funny stories coming out of some of those rules.
    Yes, I would have lost the game, if I had been the one with the Q + K, because I would not have known that I could claim a draw after my clock had expired. I would have resigned myself to the fact that I had lost on time.

    I remember reading in a chess book about two unrated players that were playing in their first tournament. And the author and another master had noticed them still playing when they both had only their kings. Later, the author saw one of the players and asked him, if they had finally given up and agreed to a draw. And the player said, "No, he checkmated me."
  4. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    06 Sep '12 06:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I found information on the current USCF Rules on Tournament Play and I copied and pasted the relevant parts to who wins when the time has expired. I think it is confusing the way it is worded. For it first states that a player wins on time when his or her opponent flag falls, or if using a digital clock, when the clock reads zero or –1.

    But then it stat win if her opponent refuses the draw and insists on playing it out with the digital clock.
    Someone re-wrote [and re-numbered] those rules. See Paul Leggett's post in the other thread for the original wording.

    http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=148235&page=18 - last post on page.
  5. 06 Sep '12 12:17 / 1 edit
    No need for a posted apology RJ, simply just adding in the thread:
    'I just checked the rules, I never knew that.' would have been fine so
    any others who did not know this catch it as well.

    Everyone on here gets things wrong, the more you post the higher the chances.
    (in your case that appears to about one in every three.)

    I recall in a debate about not being able to mate with two Knights me saying
    you cannot even mate with 3 Knights.
    (I had misread it in a book. It said you can win with 3 Knights if the other player
    has a Knight, which got me thinking you cannot win with just three Knights.)
    I was wrong, you can mate with three Knights v a lone King.
    And of course I always get Helpmate and Selfmate mixed up. Always.

    You may recall the date I was wrong. The Moon turned blue and there was
    a snowball fight in Hell.

    The good news is that someone to prove me wrong posted this link.

    http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html

    Which has been on my favourites list since then. I dabble with it sometimes
    trying to compose 3-4 piece mates.
    It have this super feature where you can shift the position up and down and
    from left to right and get instant answers often changing the solution to a
    completly different key move.
  6. 06 Sep '12 15:40
    I always thought mate with 3 knights would be a super-cool additon to the elementary mates.

    I think both sides should be allowed an extra knight at the start of the game that is not located on the board but can be dropped onto a square, perhaps one vacated by a developing piece.
  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    07 Sep '12 03:27
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    No need for a posted apology RJ, simply just adding in the thread:
    'I just checked the rules, I never knew that.' would have been fine so
    any others who did not know this catch it as well.

    Everyone on here gets things wrong, the more you post the higher the chances.
    (in your case that appears to about one in every three.)

    I recall in a deba ...[text shortened]... right and get instant answers often changing the solution to a
    completly different key move.
    Sorry, that I doubted you, but I was sure I was right. However, I have not played any games that required a decision by the T.D. and I thought I was correcting an error that everyone should be made aware. I am glad it came up for now I know that rule and if it ever comes up I will not accept a loss when the other person wins on time, but does not have enough material to mate with.
    Thanks.