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  1. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    09 Jan '07 02:35
    Do players often castle kingside with the Bird opening?
  2. 09 Jan '07 02:37 / 1 edit
    Yes.
  3. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    09 Jan '07 02:38
    alritey
  4. 09 Jan '07 02:41
    yes, usually
  5. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    09 Jan '07 03:06
    Originally posted by LordofADown
    Do players often castle kingside with the Bird opening?
    Yes.
  6. 09 Jan '07 18:24
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    In the words of IM Timothy Taylor...

    "...but what exactly is 1.f4 d5 ? It is precisely the Dutch in reverse, with an extra tempo. If chess has any logic at all, and I believe that it does, then if the Dutch is a sound opening for Black (and countless grandmasters and world champions agree) it must be good with an extra move!"
  7. 10 Jan '07 14:17
    Don't forget there is always From's gambit to amuse the Bird player. The most over-rated response to 1. f4 you will ever see!
  8. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    10 Jan '07 15:18
    Originally posted by tmetzler
    In the words of IM Timothy Taylor...

    "...but what exactly is 1.f4 d5 ? It is precisely the Dutch in reverse, with an extra tempo. If chess has any logic at all, and I believe that it does, then if the Dutch is a sound opening for Black (and countless grandmasters and world champions agree) it must be good with an extra move!"
    This would seem to be true, but you have to consider that the approaches either side are taking to the opening are different. The Dutch is a response to d4! Black has not yet commited to a move and can thus take any number of approaches to whites 1.f4.
  9. 10 Jan '07 15:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    This would seem to be true, but you have to consider that the approaches either side are taking to the opening are different. The Dutch is a response to d4! Black has not yet commited to a move and can thus take any number of approaches to whites 1.f4.
    True dat, BUT somebody that plays the bird often will most likely have seen all those approaches and already analyzed them in greater depth than the black player that faces 1.f4 once in a while.

    I think playing 1.f4 puts the white player in greater control of the direction of the game from the beginning than other common white first moves of which there are a a whole lot of well analyzed and booked/databased responses for black. But I'm just a patzer pay me no mind.

    Edit: the advantage in blitz also quite noticeable, as the black player often wastes time early on in the game, since they are not familiar with the opening.
  10. Standard member Mathurine
    sorozatgyilkos
    10 Jan '07 20:24
    Generally speaking, I loathe the Bird, but have found [Severin] From's Gambit... 1...e5!? quite useful in putting white off his/her stroke.

    Game 2960422
  11. 10 Jan '07 20:47
    I would like to play against someone who plays the bird.
  12. 10 Jan '07 21:39
    Originally posted by Mathurine
    Generally speaking, I loathe the Bird, but have found [Severin] From's Gambit... 1...e5!? quite useful in putting white off his/her stroke.

    Game 2960422
    In a '70's pamphlet on the Bird opening, Andrew Soltis showed so much respect for From's Gambit that he recommended that the Bird player transpose into a King's Gambit (i.e. 1 f4 e5 2 e4)

    In his more recent books on the Bird, he provides anti-From remedies rather than transposing into a King's Gambit.
  13. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    10 Jan '07 22:56 / 1 edit
    Most smart Bird players prefer to see the From, because it's really not good, especially the Lasker lines with ..g5. The only lines that are somewhat playable for Black are the ones with a really fast ..Nf6-g4. I love to hear people comparing White openings with their reversed Black counterparts. If the Bird is good because the Dutch is sound, then think how good the English must be! The real problem with declaring this is that given that Black knows White is a tempo up, he can't play any of the sharp lines, so he plays something solid, and forces white to pick a plan. Sometimes having a tempo in these reversed openings makes them more solid and less wild and ambitious. Look how sharp some of the Sicilians are compared to the English, which can get wild, but is generally slower and more solid.
  14. 11 Jan '07 00:21
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Most smart Bird players prefer to see the From, because it's really not good, especially the Lasker lines with ..g5. The only lines that are somewhat playable for Black are the ones with a really fast ..Nf6-g4. I love to hear people comparing White openings with their reversed Black counterparts. If the Bird is good because the Dutch is sound, then think ho ...[text shortened]... lians are compared to the English, which can get wild, but is generally slower and more solid.
    Nobody has mentioned that black looks only for equality. So, if for example black scores 50% in the Dutch he's doing very well, but if he scores 50% in the Bird, he isn't.