Go back
Botvinnik

Botvinnik

Only Chess

d

Joined
24 Nov 09
Moves
2023
Clock
03 Jul 12

Why was he disliked personally so much?

C
Cowboy From Hell

American West

Joined
19 Apr 10
Moves
55013
Clock
03 Jul 12

The USSR Absolute Championship of 1941 was brought about by the results of the 12th USSR Championship in 1940. Bondarevsky and Lillienthal tied for first and Botvinnik finished tied for 5th and 6th place. Botvinnik's eye was on the title (with Alekhine) and he started a campaign against Bondarevsky and Lillienthal. He started calling and writing Soviet Authorities telling them that neither Bodarevsky nor Lillienthal had a chance to beat Alekhine. You can imagine how Bondarevsky and lillienthal felt about Botvinnik. Botvinnik's idea went as follows---lets do 1940 all over again and instead of Bondarevsky and Lillienthat having a play-off---let the first six finishers have a playoff. We'll call it the "The USSR Absolute Championship of 1941". Well it came to pass and Botvinnik won the 1941 absolute championship but was it fair---did Botvinnik really care if it was fair?
Botvinnik was full of little tricks like this throughout his career.


http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/most-hated-chess-players-in-history

D

Joined
08 Jun 07
Moves
2120
Clock
06 Jul 12

greenpawn34

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
Clock
07 Jul 12

If the authorites did lean on Keres and Bronstein not to do well it
was without Botvinnik's knowledge.
Infact it appears the authorites would have to go great lengths to make sure
Botvinnik did not know.

Keres was told he not must be responsible for Botvinnik not winning
the 1948 World title tournament.

Later when Botvinnik found out about this and was livid.

Bronsein writes about his 1951 matech.

"I have been asked many, many times if I was obliged to lose the 23rd game
and if there was a conspiracy against me to stop me from taking Botvinnik’s title.

"A lot of nonsense has been written about this.
The only thing that I am prepared to say about all this controversy is that I was
subjected to strong psychological pressure from various origins and it was entirely
up to me to yield to that pressure or not. Let’s leave it at that."

In that 23rd game Botvinnik sealed a weak and losing move.
Salo Flohr, Botvinnik's second. Said Botvinnik was nearly in tears thinking he
had lost the title. (hardly the action of man knowing his opponent would be
throwing a game.)

Also if Botvinnik was in on the scam he could have told the Bureau that
he wanted to change his sealed move. I'm sure this could have been arranged.

Further evidence from Moscow 1935.

Botvinnik himself states:

Nikolai Krylenko told Botvinnik he could arrange it so that in the coming last
round Botvinnik's opponent, Rabinovich, would lose thus making sure Botvinnik
was the sole winner.

Botvinik replied saying if he suspected Rabinovich was playing weakly
he (Botvinnik) would hang a piece and resign.

The game was drawn. He tied for first place.

T
I am become Death

Joined
23 Apr 10
Moves
6343
Clock
07 Jul 12

Botvinnik was a dick. He said that Karpov had no future in chess. His assessment of Kramnik: "He's fat, he drinks, and he smokes." He called Bronstein "Stinkstein." He had no compunction to use Tal's illness against him, or rearrange matches because of "hot moscow weather." He also probably left the toilet seat up, double-dipped his chips in the dip bowel, and farted whilst standing on the Metro. He credited Fischer's blowing of a won position against him to a "defect of character," even though he had the Supreme Soviet of chess analyzing the adjourned position while he rested up. All that being said, every character defect he ever had pales to the fact that he contributed to all of us by teachingthe that the way to get better is to deeply, impartially, and throughly study your games.

vandervelde

Joined
10 Dec 11
Moves
143494
Clock
07 Jul 12
1 edit

After SSSR and Yugoslavia had split in 1948, one could read many articles in Yugoslavian chess magazines, in which editors and journalists (who didn´t like Russian influence even before 1948 when Tito said no to Stalin) were mocking amongst other things Botvinnik's title after "Absolute Championship..." - ChessPraxis wrote about this.

Botvinnik was allowed to use night lamp during tournaments in Hastings.

Regarding Bronstein and Keres, I am not ready to let Botvinnik off the hook so easily.

I think that Bronstein´s statement - that greenpawn mentioned - was given before he moved abroad. Western sources and his words from his will show howvere that he was forced to lose the match aginbts Botvinnik.
Also there are indications, that Geller, Keres and Bronstein were, how to say, handiccaped because thew were not Russians.

The only brigth spot in Botvinnik´s non-chess relations with ohter players is Kortchnoi´s statement, that after he (Kortchnoi) defected to the West medio 1970´s, Botvinnik was amongst Soviet GMs who did not sign a petition against Korchnoi.

I could read on internet - but I can´t find the article now - about the only chess game between Botvinnik and Fischer.

Fischer wrote that Botvinnik was very nervous, sighing and moaning: "He was sweating much and I was afraid he could die on me during the game" - if I remember well Fischer´s words.
"But when I made a final mistake and lost chances to win, he livened and regained hilarious mood."

Botvinnik, on the other hand, wrote some demeaning account about the game: he was commenting Fischer´s skill in endgame in style: "Capablanca would have never made such mistake... etc."

I remember that someone had commented Botvinnik´s words like this::.
"Capablanca would never used help of bunch of assistants like Botvinnik did, when the game was abandoned" (!!! my exclamation marks).

The point is that SSSR were indebted to Botvinnik because of his work in the field of electronics (his work is still top classiffied), and he had used it indeed. Therefore he was a "dark character" of Soviet (and world) chess".

I'll try to find Bronstein´s statement on the title match 1950 (not that one from Wikipedia).

D

Joined
08 Jun 07
Moves
2120
Clock
07 Jul 12

D

Joined
08 Jun 07
Moves
2120
Clock
07 Jul 12

T
I am become Death

Joined
23 Apr 10
Moves
6343
Clock
07 Jul 12
1 edit

The post that was quoted here has been removed
I like to make little jokes with my posts, kind of like how you like to turn the majority of yours into undergraduate papers on feminist criticism.

D

Joined
08 Jun 07
Moves
2120
Clock
07 Jul 12

s

Joined
31 Mar 12
Moves
3134
Clock
08 Jul 12

you sad sad sad human being.

greenpawn34

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
Clock
08 Jul 12
1 edit

Hi Dutchess

Thabots jokes and jokes of any kind fit in with any chess discussion as a
form of mild relief. It was a wee bit of bait cast onto the surface of the lake
to see if anyone nibbled.

He's right about Botvinnik and Karpov though, The Bot (as we called him in the 70's)
did not rate the early Karpov at all.

Hi vandervelde

I got Bronstein's statement about the 1951 match from the intro of
'The Sorcerer's Apprentice' it's title 'A Word to the Reader'

It ends David Ionovich Bronstein, Lasne, Belguim. 1995.

So it appears it was not written before he left Russia.

It is quite an open article by Bronstein he mentions that Botvinnik thought he
was the greatest player of all time. the 12-12 result proved otherwise.

There is also a hint of annoyance about this whole affair when he asks why
do journalists, "who have never played a serious match in their lives" keep
asking about a game played more than 40 years ago.

We can only speculate about the:

"....strong psychological pressure from various origins."

Bronstein, then married, had fallen in love with a younger woman and
divorce proceedings were being prepared.

Bronstein's father who had been released from a Gulag about 6 years before
the 1951 match was still classed as a 'criminal' which meant he could be
returned to a Gulag at anytime the authorites wished.

Botvinnik was a good player and Bronstein was human.
The is every chance he simply blundered a won endgame.
We have all done that.

S
Caninus Interruptus

2014.05.01

Joined
11 Apr 07
Moves
92274
Clock
08 Jul 12
1 edit

The post that was quoted here has been removed
You did not start to catch on that it was joke when you got to the part about double-dipping chips and leaving the toilet seat up?! 😵

greenpawn34

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
Clock
09 Jul 12
Vote Up
Vote Down

Bronstein 12½ Borvinnik 11½

A New Young World Chess Champion

From the 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice'. It is In the 40 combinations section.

After each combo Bronstein often adds a small anecdote about his opponent.
Combo No.9 has Bronstein beating Panov in the 1947 Moscow Championship.
He adds that Panov came up to him after the 1951 match and said;

"You spoiled my chess column."

He had written a piece as titled above fully expecting it to appear in print
the next day. He had to do a hasty re-write.

D

Joined
08 Jun 07
Moves
2120
Clock
11 Jul 12

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.