can anyone help me find this game?

hfrcan jouwe vs Ulysses72 (2009 championship rnd 2 Grp 1)

its ok i find it eventually



if i may for a moment ask the forum. Jeremy Silman states, that the consensus is, that the pawn cannot be taken safely(13...Be7xg5), yet, here, our friend Ulysses72 has shown that not only can it be taken, but the position can be consolidated, what are we to make of Mr. Silmans words?

i myself on researching the position do not think that my friend Ulysses72 made the best continuation, for after 17...fxe6, 18.Nxe6 Bxe6 19.dxe6 looks very pleasant for white. hey but i am 1600 rated super grandpatzer and my friend Ulysess is 2100+ rated player, regardless any thoughts are appreciated.

Taking may be possible but is dangerous.

I wouldn`t read into the result of the game too much.

Can anyone help me find this game?

G.Chandler v G.Kasparov, Edinburgh 1995.

Chandler won with a brilliant mating combination that Kasparov
dedicated a whole book too. I've misplaced it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

i myself on researching the position do not think that my friend Ulysses72 made the best continuation, for after 17...fxe6, 18.Nxe6 Bxe6 19.dxe6 looks very pleasant for white. hey but i am 1600 rated super grandpatzer and my friend Ulysess is 2100+ rated player, regardless any thoughts are appreciated.

My thought is that White loses his queen in the line you suggest.

21.Rhf1 looks wrong. White has more space and is a pawn down - he should be trying to keep pieces on, not swap them off. I'd be looking very hard at Bxg6, but probably settle for Rhg1 if that didn't work.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
My thought is that White loses his queen in the line you suggest.

21.Rhf1 looks wrong. White has more space and is a pawn down - he should be trying to keep pieces on, not swap them off. I'd be looking very hard at Bxg6, but probably settle for Rhg1 if that didn't work.

yep this is true, it came to me last night as i was lying in bed, i actually got up to change it, but it was too late by then. the line that i should have given was, 17...fxe6 18.Qh5 Bf6, 19.Nxe6 Bxe6, 20.dxe6 with a pleasant advantage for white - good to see you were paying attention Fat One.

actually if one considers this game, then white has better moves as well, although i think that Ulysses idea is brilliant, for he uses time on the queen to ensnare the white pawn, does not care a jot about his bishop for he will soon attack the knight, and once whites centre pawns are gone, where is his attack? is it not brilliant? anyhow the standard move seems to be after 17...fxe6, 18.Qh5 to move the bishop, thus we get 18...Bf6 and this allows white to continue, what do you think?


Vasilios Kotronias - Rune Djurhuus
1995

Originally posted by Fat Lady
My thought is that White loses his queen in the line you suggest.

21.Rhf1 looks wrong. White has more space and is a pawn down - he should be trying to keep pieces on, not swap them off. I'd be looking very hard at Bxg6, but probably settle for Rhg1 if that didn't work.

yes Bxg6 looks very strong!

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Can anyone help me find this game?

[b]G.Chandler v G.Kasparov, Edinburgh 1995.

Chandler won with a brilliant mating combination that Kasparov
dedicated a whole book too. I've misplaced it.[/b]

i cannot believe this, even the name Najdorf Sicilian has struck fear into the hearts of of honest gambiteers and 1.e4 players, since its inception! people have been known to play , ahem....1.d4 to avoid it!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its ok i find it eventually

[pgn][Event "2009 Championship"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2009.05.11"]
[EndDate "2009.08.07"]
[Round "2"]
[White "hfrcan jouwe"]
[Black "Ulysses72"]
[WhiteRating "2117"]
[BlackRating "2163"]
[WhiteELO "2117"]
[BlackELO "2163"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "6306077"]

1. e4 c5 2. Ng1f3 d6 3. d4 c ...[text shortened]... lysess is 2100+ rated player, regardless any thoughts are appreciated.

White had advantage until 31.Qe7+?

Better was 31.Qc7+ Rf7 32.Qc3+ with Qxd3. After queen exchange white should win that endgame.

Hi Cimon, thanks for that, would you also be as kind as
to evaluate the position on move 13...Bxg5+, do you think
that black can safely take this pawn, or do you think that
it is better to play 13...Bc5 as Mr.Silman suggests?
i provide the diagram for your convenience.

anyone? who thinks that the pawn can be taken, safely?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
anyone? who thinks that the pawn can be taken, safely?

I have to say, it does look dodgy for Black.

Unless Black intends to blow White out of the water within the next dozen moves or so, he has to find somewhere safe for his king.

The centre is a possibility, but only if he can avoid opening up the e or f-files. Can Black get away with playing e5? It looks very suspect, what with the backward pawn on d6 and the beautiful outpost for White's knight on d5.

Castling queenside looks wrong, Black's pawn structure there is fragile, to say the least. However, because White has also castled queenside it would be more dangerous for White to attack on that side by throwing his queenside pawns forward.

Castling kingside for Black looks out, because of the open g-file.

On the other hand, was castling kingside an option for Black if he left White's pawn on g5 alone? I wouldn't have thought so; to be honest the open g-file looks less dangerous than a pawn on g5, threatening to come to g6 and opening up Black's defences over there.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
I have to say, it does look dodgy for Black.

Unless Black intends to blow White out of the water within the next dozen moves or so, he has to find somewhere safe for his king.

The centre is a possibility, but only if he can avoid opening up the e or f-files. Can Black get away with playing e5? It looks very suspect, what with the backward pawn on d6 a ...[text shortened]... us than a pawn on g5, threatening to come to g6 and opening up Black's defences over there.

thankyou very much Fat lady, your analysis is most welcome and presented in a way that i can almost grasp in its entirety. Contrary to all expectations, the free version of Rybka thinks that the position is quite even and gives 14...0-0 a score of utter equality, the weakest move being 14...Nc5, Silmans move, other possibilities being the other main line move 14...e5. in the game at hand, almost all databases i could find suggested that even after 14.Kb1 0-0, 15.fxe6 Nb6 16.Nd5 Nxd5 17.exd5 fxe6 18.Qh5 e5 19.Qxg5 exd4 20.Bd3 g6 is still only a minuscule advantage for white.

The real fun and games start when we try Bxg6, not a move even considered by the silicon beast, but wow, it creates something for it to think about, emm, if it could think that is.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its ok i find it eventually

[pgn][Event "2009 Championship"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2009.05.11"]
[EndDate "2009.08.07"]
[Round "2"]
[White "hfrcan jouwe"]
[Black "Ulysses72"]
[WhiteRating "2117"]
[BlackRating "2163"]
[WhiteELO "2117"]
[BlackELO "2163"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "6306077"]

1. e4 c5 2. Ng1f3 d6 3. d4 c ...[text shortened]... lysess is 2100+ rated player, regardless any thoughts are appreciated.

That's a handy game! I play both sides of that. I am never sure how to attack as White but I see a lot of new ideas there.