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  1. 03 May '11 03:37
    Hello chess pros, I'm a total amateur. I'm trying to get better though, and I love the game. My friend and I just played our way into an unusual situation and we need help determining what to do next.

    Here's the situation:

    White: King on g2, Queen on h4, Rook on c7, pawns on a4, b4, c5
    Black: King on h6, Rook on f1, bishop on h5, knight on g4, pawns on g6, h7
    Black's turn.

    Here is the problem:

    Black keeps putting white in check with his knight and rook, white just moves around in circles getting out of check. Black doesn't really have any other moves to make because his king, bishop and pawns appear to be stuck. White can't do anything but constantly move out of check. Is this a draw? If not, then how?

    Thanks so much for any free advice. Happy chess playing to all.
  2. 03 May '11 08:29
    Is the game finished and you and your friend are analysing? If not, we are not allowed to comment on a game in process.
  3. 03 May '11 13:10
    Well, I guess it is finished. Neither of us know what to do, and we both decided it would be best to look for outside help. We aren't really that competitive, but technically, neither of us have called a draw yet. But yes, the game is over.
  4. 03 May '11 13:34
    Originally posted by chckrogers
    Hello chess pros, I'm a total amateur. I'm trying to get better though, and I love the game. My friend and I just played our way into an unusual situation and we need help determining what to do next.

    Here's the situation:

    White: King on g2, Queen on h4, Rook on c7, pawns on a4, b4, c5
    Black: King on h6, Rook on f1, bishop on h5, knight on g4 ...[text shortened]... aw? If not, then how?

    Thanks so much for any free advice. Happy chess playing to all.
    if the same position comes up in the game 3 times, it's a draw.
  5. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    03 May '11 13:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by chckrogers
    Hello chess pros, I'm a total amateur. I'm trying to get better though, and I love the game. My friend and I just played our way into an unusual situation and we need help determining what to do next.

    Here's the situation:

    White: King on g2, Queen on h4, Rook on c7, pawns on a4, b4, c5
    Black: King on h6, Rook on f1, bishop on h5, knight on g4 aw? If not, then how?

    Thanks so much for any free advice. Happy chess playing to all.


    Black can force a repetition with 1. ... Ne3+. The White king has to go to h2, as Kh3 would allow Rh1, winning the queen for a rook, and Kg3 allows the fork on f5. Black can then follow with ...Ng4+ and repeat until drawn.

    It looks like black should have a killer tactic, but I couldn't find one, and my computer couldn't find one either.
  6. 03 May '11 14:10
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    [fen]8/7p/6pk/2P4b/PP4nQ/8/6K1/5r2 b - - 0 1[/fen]

    Black can force a repetition with 1. ... Ne3+. The White king has to go to h2, as Kh3 would allow Rh1, winning the queen for a rook, and Kg3 allows the fork on f5. Black can then follow with ...Ng4+ and repeat until drawn.

    It looks like black should have a killer tactic, but I couldn't find one, and my computer couldn't find one either.
    But what if 1...Ne3+ 2.Kh2 Ng4+ 3.Kg3. I think White can escape the perpetual checks.
  7. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    03 May '11 14:28
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    But what if 1...Ne3+ 2.Kh2 Ng4+ 3.Kg3. I think White can escape the perpetual checks.
    ...g5 followed by ...Re1 with the idea of ...Re3 is better for black than the perpetual, I think.

    My opinion of the position is that white should gladly draw (in the absence of a winning tactic that changes the balance, of which I do not see), while black should grudgingly accept the draw if he can't find a way to knock white out.

    In other words, I think white only escapes the perpetual to his disadvantage.
  8. 03 May '11 14:38
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    ...g5 followed by ...Re1 with the idea of ...Re3 is better for black than the perpetual, I think.

    My opinion of the position is that white should gladly draw (in the absence of a winning tactic that changes the balance, of which I do not see), while black should grudgingly accept the draw if he can't find a way to knock white out.

    In other words, I think white only escapes the perpetual to his disadvantage.
    I bow to my intellectual superiors.
  9. 03 May '11 17:55
    I don't know if it changes anything here, but this board doesn't show the white rook on c7.
  10. 03 May '11 18:01
    It's seems to me, that if white were to escape the perpetual check, he would have a great advantage (queen & rook + 3 unblocked pawns) over black (rook, bishop, knight + 2 pawns)? I don't see how white gets out of check still?
  11. 03 May '11 18:04
    I also guess I need some clarification on the rules of a draw. Does one side have to offer up a draw to another side, and then have it accepted? Also, does the 3 repetitive moves count if the king and knight aren't doing the same move back and forth?
  12. 03 May '11 18:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by chckrogers
    I also guess I need some clarification on the rules of a draw. Does one side have to offer up a draw to another side, and then have it accepted? Also, does the 3 repetitive moves count if the king and knight aren't doing the same move back and forth?
    One side can offer a draw bust some draws can be claimed and others are automatic. Taking things in reverse order:

    Stalemate is automatic. If it is your turn to move but you cannot move but are not in check then you have a draw by stalemate.

    There are two situations that can allow you to claim a draw. NB the draws must be CLAIMED, they do not just happen because you think it is a draw. RHP does not do telepathy.

    Threefold repetition is a draw that has to be claimed. The repetition is of position, not necessarily move. If the same position occurs three times during a game with the same side to move and the same move possibilities existing (i.e. castling and en passant can change things) you can claim a draw.

    The "50 move rule" is also a draw that must be claimed. If both sides make 50 moves without a pawn being moved or a piece being captured then a draw can be claimed.

    To claim a draw here you just click the "Claim draw" link under the "Offer draw" link. If a draw exists the game ends, if not it doesn't.

    The last option is just offering a draw in which case your opponent can accept or decline according to choice. If you constantly click Offer draw you will likely annoy your opponent even if you are convinced it is a draw. Offer once, if the offer is declined do your best to prove to your opponent that the game is drawn then graciously accept his offer when he is finally convinced. Unless you now think you can win of course.

    Perpetual check may lead to either of the claimable draw situations but it is often prudent to offer a draw if you can see that your opponent and/or yourself cannot get out of the cycle of checks without losing. Leaving a message for your opponent explaining your reasoning might be a good idea.
  13. 03 May '11 19:39
    Originally posted by chckrogers
    I don't know if it changes anything here, but this board doesn't show the white rook on c7.
    Oops, yeah, I think adding the rook makes a difference.
  14. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    04 May '11 14:51
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    Oops, yeah, I think adding the rook makes a difference.
    I think this is the first time I have ever dropped a rook in someone else's game!

    If I could, I'd recommend my own post just to share the mirth!