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  1. 05 Aug '08 03:49
    I'm just wondering if there is anyone here who can actually beat Fritz 10+ with any regularity? If so, are there any pointers that you could give when playing an engine. I know the basics ... play a closed position, grind down the engine, and I've gotten Chessmaster 10th edition 3 times (in my life...1000s of games) like that, but have not managed to beat Fritz. So any suggestions? What about when playing GnuChess? Crafty? Know of any weaknesses in the code?
  2. 05 Aug '08 03:54
    Originally posted by amolv06
    I'm just wondering if there is anyone here who can actually beat Fritz 10+ with any regularity? If so, are there any pointers that you could give when playing an engine. I know the basics ... play a closed position, grind down the engine, and I've gotten Chessmaster 10th edition 3 times (in my life...1000s of games) like that, but have not managed to beat Fr ...[text shortened]... any suggestions? What about when playing GnuChess? Crafty? Know of any weaknesses in the code?
    umm fritz is rated much higher than anyone on the site, so I don't think your going to find anybody who's beatem fritz. let alone, beaten fritz regularly.
  3. 05 Aug '08 03:58
    Surely Weyerstrass has played an engine-user or two...

    Seeing as he has no losses, I would have thought that he may be able to beat the machine in CC.
  4. 05 Aug '08 04:00
    Originally posted by amolv06
    Surely Weyerstrass has played an engine-user or two...

    Seeing as he has no losses, I would have thought that he may be able to beat the machine in CC.
    why don't you ask him personally, because I don't think he posts regularly here.
  5. 05 Aug '08 04:04
    Well, that said, there must be other users who do as well. For instance, Duchess64 seemed to have been drawing a much higher rated engine user. While she has a pretty impressive rating, there are many here who do have a higher rating than her. Surely some of them can manage wins against the machine. In fact, Duchess64 herself admitted to winning endgames against machines from time to time because of the horizon effect.
  6. 05 Aug '08 04:11
    Originally posted by amolv06
    Well, that said, there must be other users who do as well. For instance, Duchess64 seemed to have been drawing a much higher rated engine user. While she has a pretty impressive rating, there are many here who do have a higher rating than her. Surely some of them can manage wins against the machine. In fact, Duchess64 herself admitted to winning endgames against machines from time to time because of the horizon effect.
    How do you know she is not lying?

    Maybe some of the 2000+ players have drawn or won, if one has, then maybe they could post a pgn of the game and other players could try the game against fritz to see if they can replicate the results, if they can't, then you might wonder if the player who beat Frtiz actually beat Fritz.
  7. 05 Aug '08 04:33
    While you may choose not to believe me, and while Fritz may be a superior engine to Chessmaster, I know that I have beaten CM 10th edition. I do not think that Fritz is so far superior to CM that if I can beat CM that Fritz can not be beaten by someone 500 points higher than myself. In fact, according to the CEGT list Fritz 10 is about 150 points better than The King (CM). Having both programs at home, I've matched them up on comparable computers, and The King has even won a few games running on an inferior machine. I'm confident that there are some players here who have some level of success against computers, especially with certain openings. I'm just wanting to know what the tricks of their trade are.
  8. 05 Aug '08 04:36
    Originally posted by amolv06
    While you may choose not to believe me, and while Fritz may be a superior engine to Chessmaster, I know that I have beaten CM 10th edition. I do not think that Fritz is so far superior to CM that if I can beat CM that Fritz can not be beaten by someone 500 points higher than myself. In fact, according to the CEGT list Fritz 10 is about 150 points better than ...[text shortened]... specially with certain openings. I'm just wanting to know what the tricks of their trade are.
    Try looking at some of Garry Kasparovs games against Deep Blue, that might give you some idea...
  9. 05 Aug '08 04:54
    I've been doing that, however some of those games are so far above my head that I can't understand why Kasparov does some things. Furthermore, while deep blue may have been the ultimate number cruncher, computers these days tend to have a few more human attributes. In fact, I've heard that Fritz is known for one of the few computers to play "strategically." How do modern programs compare to Deep Blue's programming? If a modern program could be put on Deep Blue's machine how would it fare? Are there books (I'm sure there are) that analyze Kasparov vs Deep Blue that could help me here? I'd love to learn how to beat a machine. I know that there's no sure-shot way, and that they will always be tactically superior (except for programming flaws) but there must be some anti-computer strategies one could use to give himself a head start. For instance, here's a game Hikaru Nakamura wins against Crafty... http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1480850

    He simply grinds it out with that long pawn chain.

    Here's another against Rybka -- the human knows that the bishops are worth more than the rooks in this game. The computer seems to not realize that. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1497429

    It's definitely doable, even if only by top-level gm's. But I'm sure there are people here who have had some success. Surely CC favors the human as compared to OTB.
  10. 05 Aug '08 05:02 / 1 edit
    I got fritz 7, I give it 5 seconds/move and take all the time I want, it crushes me . Occasionally I'll get a close game that's not embarrassing, but it always wins. There are lower rated people here who claim they can beat fritz, but I suspect they are taking back moves and using the hint button to do so.
  11. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Aug '08 05:04
    Originally posted by Dance Master MC
    Try looking at some of Garry Kasparovs games against Deep Blue, that might give you some idea...
    I don't think I could beat fritz if it ran on a commodore 64
  12. 05 Aug '08 05:16 / 1 edit
    Fritz 7 is actually rated about 30 points higher than CM 10th edition by Computer Schach.

    http://www.computerschach.de/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=242
  13. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Aug '08 05:23
    Originally posted by amolv06
    Fritz 7 is actually rated about 30 points higher than CM 10th edition by Computer Schach.

    http://www.computerschach.de/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=242
    Nice list, didn't even know there were that many programs. So any of the top 20 could beat the sitting world champion, looks like. Of course that is only on 10 min +10 games. Is there a list for regular tournament time frames?
  14. 05 Aug '08 05:30 / 2 edits
    The SSDF is 40/120:

    http://ssdf.bosjo.net/list.htm

    You can find other lists here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_engine_rating_lists
  15. 05 Aug '08 05:36
    Fritz or any modern engine at full strength and equal time controls would be extremely difficult to beat regularly (heck even once). If you can make it to the endgame you have may have a chance assuming no endgame tablebases.

    However, I think very few people would even survive the opening with an equal position let alone be winning. It takes one tactical slip up and it's over.

    To be honest, forget engines running on regular PCs, I can't even beat Chessmaster Mobile Edition on my cell phone regularly!