Originally posted by RahimKMaybe we've been here before... :-)
What?
It's a drawish opening meaning most of games result in a draw.
My database, with at least one of the players over 2100, shows a 36% draw total for the Caro-Kann. To compare, I get 33% for the Sicilian.
I accept that we all use different databases, but is yours really over 50% draws for the Caro-Kann?
I think you give too much emphasis to the opening choice when considering a game result.
Capablanca, Botvinnik, and Karpov all made good use of the Caro-Kann Defense, so the opening is in good company. The Caro allows black to develop his pieces with no weaknesses or positional problems, like the locked-in queen bishop the French Defense gives you.
Nothing wrong with the Caro-Kann.
Originally posted by Varenkahttp://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=21720&move=1.5&moves=e4&nodes=21720
Maybe we've been here before... :-)
My database, with at least one of the players over 2100, shows a 36% draw total for the Caro-Kann. To compare, I get 33% for the Sicilian.
I accept that we all use different databases, but is yours really over 50% draws for the Caro-Kann?
I think you give too much emphasis to the opening choice when considering a game result.
Only master games I believe so 2200+
40% thats huge. Keep in mind there are some variation in the caro which could be more then 50% draws. Say get rid of the advance and panov variations and see what % are draws.
Originally posted by RahimK40% is huge?! According to the same site, the main line Ruy Lopez is 41.9% draws. So, do you also think that the Ruy Lopez is drawish?
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=21720&move=1.5&moves=e4&nodes=21720
Only master games I believe so 2200+
40% thats huge. Keep in mind there are some variation in the caro which could be more then 50% draws. Say get rid of the advance and panov variations and see what % are draws.
>> "Keep in mind there are some variation in the caro which could be more then 50% draws."
Yes, but how many openings do you think don't have such lines? The question is whether both players are willing to play these lines. If either player wants to play for a win, there's ample scope to create problems for the opponent.
Originally posted by VarenkaYes as black I think Ruy is drawish, and thus I switched to 1.e4 c5 on here and after I'm comfortable I will use in in OTB play. I'm sick of those punks who keep playing the ruy exchange on me and 20 -30 moves down the line we get a draw.... I'm sick of it!!!!!!
40% is huge?! According to the same site, the main line Ruy Lopez is 41.9% draws. So, do you also think that the Ruy Lopez is drawish?
>> "Keep in mind there are some variation in the caro which could be more then 50% draws."
Yes, but how many openings do you think don't have such lines? The question is whether both players are willing to play these ...[text shortened]... her player wants to play for a win, there's ample scope to create problems for the opponent.
They should make a rule that you can't play any opening with the word exchange in the title, where all 4 pieces come out for both sides before the queen, where the king castles by move 6. We tried to pass such a legistation at our club but the board memeber did not except since one of them played the petrov and some of the others played the ruy exchange. Note the idea was suggest by a master to our club, he's very popular at our club and is one of the moderator for our chess group.
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Originally posted by RahimKSome questions...
I'm sick of those punks who keep playing the ruy exchange on me and 20 -30 moves down the line we get a draw.... I'm sick of it!!!!!!
Did you play perfectly or was there room for improvement in your play? Maybe you should look beyond the opening for possibilities to avoid a draw.
Do you think these "punks" would do likewise against a GM? i.e. is the opening or the player the main factor in determining the result?
If/when I run out of ideas in a line of the Caro-Kann, a review of GM games makes it clear to me that the problem is with my imagination, etc. and not with the opening.
Originally posted by VarenkaI don't know why we are still talking about this.
Some questions...
Did you play perfectly or was there room for improvement in your play? Maybe you should look beyond the opening for possibilities to avoid a draw.
Do you think these "punks" would do likewise against a GM? i.e. is the opening or the player the main factor in determining the result?
If/when I run out of ideas in a line of the Caro ...[text shortened]... s makes it clear to me that the problem is with my imagination, etc. and not with the opening.
I'm saying some openings are drawish in nature. To me Caro-kann is one of them. Petrov as well. Look at that site I sent over. 50% draws on move 3 is it? And that is for master games.
So to me the petrov is a drawish opening. Caro kann is the devils opening.
Matter of opinion.
Originally posted by RahimKIt may be opinion, but your opinion is based on your personal inability to avoid draws in these openings, plus blindly interpreting some database stats.
I don't know why we are still talking about this.
I'm saying some openings are drawish in nature. To me Caro-kann is one of them. Petrov as well. Look at that site I sent over. 50% draws on move 3 is it? And that is for master games.
So to me the petrov is a drawish opening. Caro kann is the devils opening.
Matter of opinion.
The Caro-Kann usually starts on move 1, not move 3. And for that DB to be based on master games, the players would have to be at least 2300.
Originally posted by VarenkaYes I cannot avoid draws in such position against player around my strenght in Otb. I find such openings boring and prefer playing against something more lively, like the sicilian.
It may be opinion, but your opinion is based on your personal inability to avoid draws in these openings, plus blindly interpreting some database stats.
The Caro-Kann usually starts on move 1, not move 3. And for that DB to be based on master games, the players would have to be at least 2300.
From what I have heard and read, 2200 is Master level. At least in my country it is. I don't know about else where.