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  1. 19 May '09 08:40 / 1 edit
    I am equally curious about these subjects since I am looking into the catalan as white and the first time I played it I get this ending hence the title of the thread.



    Is this a win for me as white? And I feel that I didn't play as well as I should have but I can't find anything better... The game kind of felt drawish the whole time and I always felt like I was catching lucky breaks with blacks time consuming maneuvers. For example, on his 22nd move black could have played 22...Qf8 and reached he was trying to get on move 25 instead of move 32! That's 7 wasted moves! Plus the fact that in that time he also let me trade off my bad bishop and his 24th move also wastes time.... Any ideas on better plans for white out of the opening?

    I know 24.e4 looks bad but I didn't want him playing ...f5. I didn't really look if he could get anything rolling with it but I sure didn't want to find out.

    Edit: maybe 22...Bg7 23...Qg5 was to threaten ...f5? Anyway it worked and I gave in and played e4.
  2. Subscriber davaniel
    1.Nf3
    19 May '09 09:04
    Doesn't 32. ... Bxd6 win Black a pawn?
  3. 19 May '09 09:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by davaniel
    Doesn't 32. ... Bxd6 win Black a pawn?
    No not after 33.Qd3 or 31.Qd1
  4. 19 May '09 09:17
    One of Catalan's problems is that you don't really know where it begins or where it stops, for there are many transpositions. But still, the starting position is this one:

    for white c4/d4/g3/Bg2; for black Nf6/e6/d5.
    Black to play.

    If we agree on this, I am afraid this one is not a Catalan, but an old-indian defense. games with f8 bishop in fancietto are pretty different from castalan patterns.

    By the way, I am delighted you play Catalan dear tomtom, for I myself do so.
  5. 19 May '09 09:22
    Originally posted by Macpo
    One of Catalan's problems is that you don't really know where it begins or where it stops, for there are many transpositions. But still, the starting position is this one:

    for white c4/d4/g3/Bg2; for black Nf6/e6/d5.
    Black to play.

    If we agree on this, I am afraid this one is not a Catalan, but an old-indian defense. games with f8 bishop in fanciett ...[text shortened]... lan patterns.

    By the way, I am delighted you play Catalan dear tomtom, for I myself do so.
    Hmm. Do you have "Winning with the Catalan" by Angus Dunnington? If so, is it any good?

    And maybe you would be so kind as to post a catalan or two and go through them explaining the common patterns and plans?
  6. 19 May '09 09:43 / 2 edits
    No sorry I didn't read any book on the Catalan... and I am afraid I am not good enough to do something precise on it!
    I made some analyse of one of my games, which is not so to speak a Catalan, but very close to; if you're interested in this, I may post it. It's a bit long, a bit messy, but I can fix this if you want... That's all I can offer

    EDIT: But if you play it too, I would be very interested! Why not a couple of unrated, talking games together? Since I play Nf6-e6 as black against d4-c4 I sometimes meet g3, so it would be interesting on both sides for me...
  7. 19 May '09 10:37
    Originally posted by Macpo
    No sorry I didn't read any book on the Catalan... and I am afraid I am not good enough to do something precise on it!
    I made some analyse of one of my games, which is not so to speak a Catalan, but very close to; if you're interested in this, I may post it. It's a bit long, a bit messy, but I can fix this if you want... That's all I can offer

    EDIT: But ...[text shortened]... black against d4-c4 I sometimes meet g3, so it would be interesting on both sides for me...
    I would be delighted to read your analysis. I am of the opinion that we can all learn from everybody around us. Plus, you must be more experience in it then I am since I have not played a real one yet.


    Note: It would be great to play a few games. Though it would have to be through private messages if you don't mind since my internet is down on my computer and am on my mobile which doesn't have complete browser capabilities and doesn't allow me to make any moves.
  8. 19 May '09 13:18
    Ok fine! I am not an expert in Catalan neither...

    and let's play by PM. I don't have any board, so I will transpose on RHP virtual boards, which might be a bit slow, but nevermind!

    I bring my "analysis" soon...
  9. 19 May '09 14:12 / 1 edit
    This is a king's indian, the fianchetto system for white. A catalan has a black pawn on d5 (an/or c4 later)

    This system against the king's indian is a bit timid, you want black to take on d4 after which your bishop is just as imposing as black's.
  10. 19 May '09 18:16
    Originally posted by Garnoth
    This is a king's indian, the fianchetto system for white. A catalan has a black pawn on d5 (an/or c4 later)

    This system against the king's indian is a bit timid, you want black to take on d4 after which your bishop is just as imposing as black's.
    So 8.dxe5 was no good? I wanted to make his dark bishop seem silly by fixing his pawn on e5... But I guess that e5 pawn gave him other advantages.... And my knight just became a target so I guess posting it there wasn't best either.
  11. 19 May '09 18:34
    I didn't say it was no good, it is just not theory.
  12. 19 May '09 20:56
    Originally posted by Garnoth
    I didn't say it was no good, it is just not theory.
    Thanks still. I am not sure what theory is on this but from what your are saying is theory it seems 8.e4 exd4 9.Nxd4 looks good.
  13. 19 May '09 22:41
    I agree, it's more of a Fianchetto King's Indian than a Catalan. dxe5 can be good sometimes but better to wait if you can.

    Not sure about the ending. Chances look about even. With Q's exchanged the bishop is better, unless the pawns are very far advanced OR if the bishop has to handle two passed pawns separated by many files.

    Comp vs. comp over many games would help estimate who (if any) is better.
  14. 19 May '09 23:04
    Originally posted by DawgHaus
    I agree, it's more of a Fianchetto King's Indian than a Catalan. dxe5 can be good sometimes but better to wait if you can.

    Not sure about the ending. Chances look about even. With Q's exchanged the bishop is better, unless the pawns are very far advanced OR if the bishop has to handle two passed pawns separated by many files.

    Comp vs. comp over many games would help estimate who (if any) is better.
    Yes, my plan was to move my pawns up with the aid of my king and queen and then trade off the queens. I was envisioning something like this



    With either to move.
  15. 20 May '09 06:42
    Right, that is theory, you get a nice e4 c4 maroczy bind like structure and free scope for your g2 bishop.