CC and OTB play

"Good OTB players have good physical condition, strong nerves, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to concentrate well and to adapt quickly to changing situations on the board. Good CC players are extremely patient, hardworking and can analyze well. There is a tradeoff between intuition and analytical care. The less intuition a CC player has, the more he must work. Of course, both abilities are needed for any kind of chess, but to different extents."

"Unlike OTB players who rely on their mental and physical abilities only, a CC player can resort to all kinds of support.He may sit in front of a board, moving pieces forth and back [....]He may search the literature to find the most recent opening novelty, or he may think that consulting his huge game database is quicker for this purpose."

"CC players can sleep on their decisions before they commit to them by putting post cards into the letter box. This is particularly important for players who don't have infallible intuitions, but must instead systematically experiment with various plans before reaching a profound insight."

"CC players also can take time if the position changes its character. They can slowly get used to it, whereas an OTB player must be able to accomodate to such changes within seconds."

"Modern OTB chess puts strong emphasis on the psychologically best move. This is the one causing the most trouble for the opponent in the situation at hand. Throwing in a piece, complicating the position at almost any price, if the opponent is in time trouble - all this may yield the point even if the 'truth' in the position is different."

From http://www.dfki.de/~busemann/corr-chess.html

Please feel free to discuss these statements.

"Good OTB players have good physical condition, strong nerves, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to concentrate well and to adapt quickly to changing situations on the board. Good CC players are extremely patient, hardworking and can analyze well. There is a tradeoff between intuition and analytical care. The less intuition a CC player has, the more he must work. Of course, both abilities are needed for any kind of chess, but to different extents."

I think anyone whos managed to get good at OTB could be said to be "extremely patient, hardworking and can analyze well"

"Unlike OTB players who rely on their mental and physical abilities only, a CC player can resort to all kinds of support.He may sit in front of a board, moving pieces forth and back [....]He may search the literature to find the most recent opening novelty, or he may think that consulting his huge game database is quicker for this purpose."

The only thing that would make a difference between OTB and CC rating here is how efficently people use the support available to them outside of the use of engines im not sure how much this support would add to someones basic OTB ability but I seriously doubt it would be more than 100-150 points.

I still dont think there will be a huge difference in ablity from this type of CC chess and OTB ability. When I get into positions I know in on RHP I play well, when I get into ones I dont handle well, I dont play good moves. Thats not from lack of trying or analyzing or even research, I have a large database and own Chessbase which allows you to search for simlar positions. Even with this the fact remains that chess moves spring primarily from what you understand and if you dont have the feel for the position no patch work analysis is going to help. You only have to think about the last time you learnt a new opening, did you really understand the arising positions the first time you played it? The answer is no and no amount of analysis on that first game would make you play as good moves in your first game as say when you've played the same opening for 2-3 years. I mean I know the opening moves to endless 1.d4 openings but if I ever tried to play one of them against someone who has experience they would maul me silly in OTB or this type of correspondence chess. Chess isnt something you can just come to and understand in a short time, it takes quiet a while for the positions and ideas to sink in.

You certainly throw away an advantage of cc if you don't use the time you are given to check your moves and explore the position more deeply. CC seems to me to also emphasis "play the board" instead of "play the man"; an opponent will probably see your clever trap if he has 3 days to look for it. 🙂. And I'm glad cc gives you time to adjust slowly to new situations, I need time to calm down after I drop yet another piece!

I can only agree with every statement! Time is of the essence in OTB, the (analysed) best move, may not be the best move after all in OTB.

Choosing between a quik, mildly annoying, complex move may be much better than analysing all the variations and losing precious time in order to make the 'best' (i.e. scientifically approached) move!

Originally posted by Bedlam
"Good OTB players have good physical condition, strong nerves, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to concentrate well and to adapt quickly to changing situations on the board. Good CC players are extremely patient, hardworking and can analyze well. There is a tradeoff between intuition and analytical care. The less intuition a CC player has, the more nderstand in a short time, it takes quiet a while for the positions and ideas to sink in.

Originally posted by Bedlam
[b]"Good OTB players have good physical condition, strong nerves, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to concentrate well and to adapt quickly to changing situations on the board. Good CC players are extremely patient, hardworking and can analyze well. There is a tradeoff between intuition and analytical care. The less intuition a CC player has, the more nderstand in a short time, it takes quiet a while for the positions and ideas to sink in.

Can you understand that understanding of chess itself does not guarantee good OTB results if:

1) you are in bad physical condition - as due to tireness you may make really stupid moves and even blunders.

2) you have psychological problems - inability to adapt with new situation if the position changes its character, inability to decide which move to make (which will lead to time trouble), inability to act in stress situations, inability to play after loss etc.

In CC these qualities are not so important as in OTB chess.

1. Yes you see this all the time at the end of tournaments.

2. Again, you do see it happen when playing OTB.

There are players who are not so good in OTB as in analyzing. For example well known theoretic Sveshnikov had quite average OTB results to compare with many top GMs with lesser contribution in opening theory.

It would be intresting if he had a correspondence rating. But the theory he layed down has been changed and improved upon, no matter how deep the work is when it first started it was still worse than it is today. And someone with a modern days understanding of the Sveshnikov would probably managed to get an edge in the opening and arrising middlegame positions if they played Evgeny Sveshnikov of then.

Um, what do OTB and CC stand for?

Originally posted by wormwood
somehow 'patient' seems like the wrong word for guys who throw temper tantrums over reasons varying from petty to paranormal. 🙂

I totally agree on the familiarity of the positions. in fact, I'm more and more inclined to believe that it might be even as important as tactics. because you don't really see anything in a random (unfamiliar), the p ...[text shortened]... between otb/classical/blitz, but anyway, here, by OTB I mean classical controls OTB...[/b]

Originally posted by Bedlam
Can you understand that understanding of chess itself does not guarantee good OTB results if:

1) you are in bad physical condition - as due to tireness you may make really stupid moves and even blunders.

2) you have psychological problems - inability to adapt with new situation if the position changes its character, inability to decide which move to edge in the opening and arrising middlegame positions if they played Evgeny Sveshnikov of then.

Originally posted by moteutsch
Um, what do OTB and CC stand for?

Originally posted by Korch
You missed my point - I wanted to say that abilities to analyse (which theoretics has more than others) does not guarantee better OTB results and in CC this ability is more important.

Originally posted by Bedlam
[b]somehow 'patient' seems like the wrong word for guys who throw temper tantrums over reasons varying from petty to paranormal. 🙂

I think anyone who is good must have spent years working away at chess, losing all those games and yes people can get emotional but the good people come back to the game and work at it.


The 2-3 min per a move applies ...[text shortened]... applies to everyone playing CC, so I dont see how that would make a big difference to rating.[/b]

Originally posted by wormwood
yeah, relentlessness obviously is a quality all good players have in common. they simply don't give up.

did you miss my edit (the real point)? I added it quite a lot after the initial post. haven't slept so I forget to write down things like the initial point I was going to make. 🙂 (no moving allowed for me today... one of the plusses of CC)

Originally posted by Bedlam
[b]oh, and the real point being: many/most people won't use hours per move even if they could, and THAT'S gonna make a huge difference in CC between equal OTB players.

I of course refer to a situation where both players use their CC time wisely. Peoples understanding of a position takes quite a good deal of time to build up and this is what limits the ...[text shortened]... etween OTB and this style of CC rating but it wont be vastly huge 300-400 points for example.[/b]