Just back from a OTB tournament in Galway. Was doing OK after 5 rounds with +2=3-0 (3.5 points from 5). Was getting in car after Sunday morning game to go for lunch before final round. Sunday morning was a 3 hour draw so I only had the bare hour to eat and get back.
Feckin car wouldn't start. Feck. Since I had to travel home (to Wexford 175 miles/280k) I had to get car sorted. Rang AA (Thank God I'm a member) and they said they'd be about an hour.
Grabbed a sandwich. No AA guy so started chess game. I played blitz style while waiting for AA guy and after 10 moves I had used just 8 mins clock to his 45 mins. I had advantage after a bishop sac on Bxf7+ I got 3 pawns in return and his King had lost castle rights and was very exposed.
Anyway AA guy arrived and I was guts of hour out with him sorting car.
Went back in to finish game. Still distracted from car and that and short on time so just made first reasonable move I saw to start his clock and give me time to settle.
It was a blunder and he won a free piece but I rallied and was all over him with mate threats unless he gave up serious material.
AND THEN HE CASTLED LONG.
What with car distraction and all that I didn't recall he had already moved his King twice!! After he castled it removed all my pins (1 rook and 1 bishop) on his King and brought his useless trapped in corner QR into game. I played another move or 2 before resigning.
It was only later when I played it through with my brother that we noticed he had made an illegal move.
My questions...
1) If I noticed straight away, would he still have to move his King since he had touched that piece?
2) If I had played on a move or 2 and then noticed and brought it to ajudicator's attention what would ruling have been?
3) He castled while I was away from board and it may have been an honest mistake but my clock had run down an hour on his illegal move.
4) Would game have been voided / each awarded draws / my win?
I'll contact the competition organiser about this later but I'd be interested to hear what you guys think.
I'll post the game if this gets any interest.
Cheers.
If you'd noticed straight away, then he has to move his King - happened to me in the West of Scotland Championships - I tried to castle through check (it was a time scramble), then had to move my king. Disastrous.
If you notice a couple of moves later, you reset to the position before the illegal move.
I don't think the rules say anyhting about resetting clock times.
If you don't spot it and the game ends, then the result stands.
1) If I noticed straight away, would he still have to move his King since he had touched that piece?
yes, or his rook. You were not there to see which he touched first.
2) If I had played on a move or 2 and then noticed and brought it to ajudicator's attention what would ruling have been?
restore the game to the position before the illegal move, and he must make a legal move
3) He castled while I was away from board and it may have been an honest mistake but my clock had run down an hour on his illegal move.
Was his name Silvio?
4) Would game have been voided / each awarded draws / my win?
No.
Originally posted by WulebgrWhen castling, you must move the king first. Therefore, if castling is illegal, he must move the king.
1) If I noticed straight away, would he still have to move his King since he had touched that piece?
yes, or his rook. You were not there to see which he touched first.
2) If I had played on a move or 2 and then noticed and brought it to ajudicator's attention what would ruling have been?
restore the game to the position before the illegal move, and ...[text shortened]...
Was his name Silvio?
4) Would game have been voided / each awarded draws / my win?
No.
If a player attempts to castle by moving the rook first, the opponent is at liberty to insist that it is a rook move (Rf1/8 or Rd1/8).
Found it in the FIDE rules: 4.4 (c) states, "If a player, intending to castle, touches the king or king and rook at the same time, but castling on that side is illegal, the player must make another legal move with his king which may include castling on the other side. If the king has no legal move, the player is free to make any legal move."
Originally posted by WulebgrSurely national federation rules are subordinate to FIDE rules?
This is no longer the case under USCF rules, so I wasn't certain whether the rules in Scotland (FIDE?) still require the king to move first.
And the case we're discussing here isn't subject to USCF rules.
Originally posted by RedmikeThere is something in the FIDE laws about resetting clocks:
If you'd noticed straight away, then he has to move his King - happened to me in the West of Scotland Championships - I tried to castle through check (it was a time scramble), then had to move my king. Disastrous.
If you notice a couple of moves later, you reset to the position before the illegal move.
I don't think the rules say anyhting about resetting clock times.
7.4(a) If during a game it is found by the arbiter or one of the players that an illegal move...has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. ... The clocks shall be adjusted according to Article 6.14.
6.14 If an irregularity occurs and/or the pieces have to be restored to a previous position, the arbiter shall use his best judgement to determine the times to be shown on the clocks.
7.4(b) says you get an extra two minutes on top of that.
Originally posted by RedmikeOf course not. It's simply the case that we Americans are often confused because our rules and laws are often looney.
And the case we're discussing here isn't subject to USCF rules.
Does Scotland have separate rules, as the U.S., or do all events adhere to FIDE rules?
I find it strange that castling will allow for the rook to be moved first. Considering that the rook moving 2 spaces (3 for queen side) is a legal move in itself. Where as a king move 2 spaces by itself isn't a legal move.
For example, If the rook is moved first with the intent to just move the rook, and then the person suddenly changes their mind, he/she could then potentially castle. Moving the king first will not be as ambiguous.
I find that statement about the position being restore several moves later very strange.
If someone plays an illegal move and later on say 10 moves you figure it out then they go back to that position?
I taught that you had to mention it right away and if you don't then to bad.
Because what stops you from playing dumb moves, going all out and when you can't mate them, O by the way that move 15 of yours was illegal so we have to go back??
Isn't it like flagging? If you see it you call it but if you don't then you have to wait till the next time an illegal move has been played?