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  1. 28 Jul '08 12:22 / 3 edits
    I think anybody banned should have all their wins and draws
    turned to losses and recaluculated rating points giving to their opponents.

    It the very least the site boffins can do.

    (if a case arrives where a known cheat has played another known cheat
    then the result is void - see I have thought this out).

    They have the list of opponents and the results it would relatively
    easy to run a reverse program through their profile.

    It happens in every other sport if cheats are exposed.
    Why not here?

    Please don't come back and say new hardware required, cost of programmer etc.
    I could knock up an Excel Macro that would do the job in 30 minutes
    and that includes having a tea break.

    There are some clever guys on here, they could get one of those to write
    the program for them. Offer them a years free sub.

    Simple banning is not enough.
    There must be some kind of renumeration for the cheats victims.

    Morally I'm right.

    Legally:
    I pay you £15.00 to play chess - you expose a cheat and you ban him from the site.
    He may be a person I have lost to and yet you will not reverse the result?....

    Korch, your clan has been a victim of a recent cheat,
    you are a lawyer....

    What do you guys think?
    Have I got a point or am I just ranting because it's Monday morning
    and I have a minor hang-over.
  2. 28 Jul '08 12:29
    There might be some complications if a user's rating was retrospectively increased after someone was banned, and this meant that the non-cheating user's rating was too high for a rated tournament he consequently won.

    At the very least I'd like tournaments won by cheats to not appear under the "Tournament Victories" on their user profile.
  3. Standard member clandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
    28 Jul '08 12:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I think anybody banned should have [b]all their wins and draws
    turned to losses and recaluculated rating points giving to their opponents.

    It the very least the site boffins can do.

    (if a case arrives where a known cheat has played another known cheat
    then the result is void - see I have thought this out).

    They have the list of opponents a I got a point or am I just ranting because it's Monday morning
    and I have a minor hang-over.[/b]
    I´m not much of a computer programmer, but it seems difficult.

    It would be easy to change to rating of the cheat, but what about the ratings of those afected after the original rating was changed? The cheat´s rating would be extremely low if their games were all loses.

    The once you have changed the rating of those affected by the cheat, you have to change the rating of those affected by those affected by the cheat, and those afected by those affected by those affected by the cheat, etc.

    It goes on and on.

    However, It would be easy to change the results of tournaments and award them to the rightful winners...

    Edit: Fat Lady beat me..
  4. 28 Jul '08 12:39
    Originally posted by clandarkfire
    I´m not much of a computer programmer, but it seems difficult.

    It would be easy to change to rating of the cheat, but what about the ratings of those afected after the original rating was changed? The cheat´s rating would be extremely low if their games were all loses.

    The once you have changed the rating of those affected by the cheat, you h ...[text shortened]... and those afected by those affected by those affected by the cheat, etc.

    It goes on and on.
    It would be a piece of puss to do this.

    If you have a big, long list of all the games played in the order that they finished, then you would just work through them, calculating the ratings as you went along.

    This really would not be a difficult task for a modern computer to handle. You're probably talking about a couple of million games and a couple hundred thousand users. I would have thought that even a script (rather than a program) could churn through those in a couple of hours.
  5. 28 Jul '08 12:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    There might be some complications if a user's rating was retrospectively increased after someone was banned, and this meant that the non-cheating user's rating was too high for a rated tournament he consequently won.

    At the very least I'd like tournaments won by cheats to not appear under the "Tournament Victories" on their user profile.
    Cannot see why that should be a problem.
    It's not the victims fault his grade should have been higher.

    quote:
    "At the very least I'd like tournaments won by cheats to not appear under the "Tournament Victories" on their user profile."

    Totally agree. It reads like.

    Hey we caught a cheat - look how many tournaments he won
    before we finally caught him
    ...

    (Fat Lady: did you read my post under the thread draw?
    I gave a poor lad a sever leg-pulling for missing two simple mates in 2.

    Then read his profile.
    Turns how he only learned the game in April. Whoops!
    Welcome to the friendly world of chess).
  6. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    28 Jul '08 12:42
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I think anybody banned should have [b]all their wins and draws
    turned to losses and recaluculated rating points giving to their opponents.

    It the very least the site boffins can do.

    (if a case arrives where a known cheat has played another known cheat
    then the result is void - see I have thought this out).

    They have the list of opponents a ...[text shortened]... I got a point or am I just ranting because it's Monday morning
    and I have a minor hang-over.[/b]
    Rec`ed
  7. Standard member Ichibanov
    King of slow
    28 Jul '08 12:45
    But it does make sense for all clan league games by that player to be forfeit, including those already won by the cheat. Currently, its become a common strategy to delay in games vs suspected engines so as to benefit from a post-ban forfeit. To make it simple, it should only apply to an active clan league (IE don't try to fix previous season's).

    The ratings adjustment question is murky, but this seems pretty easy.
  8. 28 Jul '08 12:57
    I'm not asking for clan v clan matches to be re-calculated.
    (though why not?)

    And I not asking for all previous cheats scores to be adjusted.

    Pick a future date. 1st October 2008.

    From the 1st October 2008 anybody caught cheating will have
    all their wins and draws classed as losses and the grading points of all
    their opponents will be adjusted.

    I know it's petty, but it is something for the poor lad who has been cheated.

    It happens in all other sports, why not chess?
  9. 28 Jul '08 13:03 / 1 edit
    This is definately a good idea.
    I have a list of tournaments that I consider myself to have deserved to win (or at least progressed) but was stopped by cheats.

    Tournament 3145
    Tournament 1845 This one you need to see the first round.
  10. 28 Jul '08 13:03
    Realize that this would cause a lot of legit players to lose points. For example, say you beat a cheater who was rated 2200 at the time you played. If you go back and turn all of the cheater's games to losses, their rating will probably be like 900 or less at the time of your win, so you'd actually lose points in the adjustment.
  11. Subscriber Ponderable On Vacation
    chemist
    28 Jul '08 13:05
    Well mny 2 cents. People start out at 1200p If cheats are to loose all their games, they will come out what? 500? So the majority of games would result in no points exchanged. So This simplifies one part of the calculations. However the second part is more difficult, since if I played acheat and lost points I would get them back, amking me a "stronger" player for the next match, as was pointed out. Eventually staistical fluctualtions would be damped out, but how much calculations (in the case of clivesomething) would be necessary ?

    Actually it would be comparatively VERY EASY to rectify clan matches. This should be done I agree (even if we had a banned player in the clan I am now captaining)
  12. 28 Jul '08 13:05
    Originally posted by incandenza
    Realize that this would cause a lot of legit players to lose points. For example, say you beat a cheater who was rated 2200 at the time you played. If you go back and turn all of the cheater's games to losses, their rating will probably be like 900 or less at the time of your win, so you'd actually lose points in the adjustment.
    You can only ever lose points for a win if you have a provisional rating.
  13. 28 Jul '08 13:08
    Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
    You can only ever lose points for a win if you have a provisional rating.
    Yeah, but I'm not talking about losing points in that sense.

    Say you beat someone who's rated 2200. You gain +16 or something for that.

    Now that game turns into a win against a 900, for which you gain +0.

    You gone from +16 to +0, hence you lost 16 points.
  14. 28 Jul '08 13:11
    Originally posted by incandenza
    Realize that this would cause a lot of legit players to lose points. For example, say you beat a cheater who was rated 2200 at the time you played. If you go back and turn all of the cheater's games to losses, their rating will probably be like 900 or less at the time of your win, so you'd actually lose points in the adjustment.
    Not if you used his grade at the time the game was played.

    The program will not alter the cheats grade.

    OK this will benefit some players who played the cheat after he
    cheated his way to over 2000 but the main thing is everyone
    will get a rating increase. Even those he beat legit.
  15. 28 Jul '08 13:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by incandenza
    Yeah, but I'm not talking about losing points in that sense.

    Say you beat someone who's rated 2200. You gain +16 or something for that.

    Now that game turns into a win against a 900, for which you gain +0.

    You gone from +16 to +0, hence you lost 16 points.
    Only his wins and draws are affected - wins are yours.

    (have to get back to work - I'll look again at 5.30pm
    if the majority seem in favour I'll post on the SITE IDEAS Forum.)

    simple yes or no would suffice.